Why is there a 100 point rating scale for cigars?

[La_Tigre]

No Infantes left behind......?

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Bueller...

Bueller...

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[Cigar Surgeon]

2 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Definitely depends on your goals. If to rank every cigar absolutely then too restrictive. If the goal is to determine winners and losers it works for me.

For example the recent video review series, the RASS would be a 4/5 for me and the CoRo might be a 5/5. Something average or not that good would be 3/5. And that's probably as low as you'd go on a review if it wasn't a dud. But I definitely give out way more 1s and 2s than Cigar Aficionado or most 100 point scorers give out low scores (sub 50). Again they only went as low as 69 and that only twice.

I gave 7 1s and 22 2s, since October. 75 3s, 113 4s, 18 5s.

To me the fact you're using the entire scale is already a massive improvement. When every cigar is a 95, it becomes meaningless, and for most online media the average score creep has approached 92 points.

As you say; the problem with the 100 point scale is point creep. Halfwheel is really the only online site that posts scores sub 80 points, and even then it's fairly rare.

Absolutely absurd (in this reviewer's opinion) to think the average new cigar on the market is a 92 rating. 

[El Presidente]

1 minute ago, Bijan said:

Definitely depends on your goals. If to rank every cigar absolutely then too restrictive. If the goal is to determine winners and losers it works for me.

For example the recent video review series, the RASS would be a 4/5 for me and the CoRo might be a 5/5. Something average or not that good would be 3/5. And that's probably as low as you'd go on a review if it wasn't a dud. But I definitely give out way more 1s and 2s than Cigar Aficionado or most 100 point scorers gives out low scores. Again they only went as low as 69 and that only twice.

I gave 7 1s and 22 2s, since October. 75 3s, 113 4s, 18 5s.

let's say that Ken and I both really liked a cigar.....but ken thought it a tad better than I did because he had this golden second third of caramel.  He gave it a 94.  I really liked the cigar but didn't get the orchestra. I gave it a 91. 

on a 1-5 scale   Ken would be a 4? and I would be a 3?

Seems a little unfair. They should both be 4. 

maybe half points is the way. 

[Bijan]

1 minute ago, El Presidente said:

maybe half points is the way. 

I actually use half points when I post reviews to FOH. But I track my general reviews on Cuban Cigar Website's system and they only allow 1-5 stars, so my everyday casual reviews are in that style.

3 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

let's say that Ken and I both really liked a cigar.....but ken thought it a tad better than I did because he had this golden second third of caramel.  He gave it a 94.  I really liked the cigar but didn't get the orchestra. I gave it a 91. 

on a 1-5 scale   Ken would be a 4? and I would be a 3?

Seems a little unfair. They should both be 4. 

If they both should be a 4, you'd both give them a 4. The 5 point scale doesn't have the resolution to tell the difference properly. Doesn't mean you'd have to give it a 3. You'd both give 4 and unfortunately wouldn't know who liked it more. Half point as you say would solve that. If I was Ken in that case I'd score 4.5 on my detailed review and then punch in 4 when I go to CCW.

[djrey]

I use 100 pt because since I was a kid in school I’ve been graded on the 100 pt scale. Wine is also in 100 pts. 5 and 10’s are far too restrictive to me. I think of it like tools. A mechanic doesn’t have 5 wrenches nor does a painter have 5 brushes to paint a picture. No offense to 5 point users but a 4/5 means a lot less that say an 87 (to me). Keep in mind 4/5 translates to an 80. To me that’s pretty bad... so you either have a totally flawless wouldn’t change a thing perfect 5/5 cigar or a this cigar has 20% error 4/5 cigar.

To each their own when it comes to rating but I think the 100 pt is standard for good reason. 

[Çnote]

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

100 points is used in school grades, has a familiarity to it.

This is pretty much it. Robert Parker made the 100 point wine scale popular and it resonated with the 'educated' American buyer. I personally like the decanter's 20p system and at the end of the day use a 4 point system:

Would i buy more at fair market?

No / maybe? / sure I'd lineup / yes for sure

[Kevin48438]

I think a lot of scorers use the Cigar Aficionado system as sort of a language that smokers are familiar with.

As people see the scores and smoke the cigars themselves it’s like they are learning words.  When I see a reviewer on this site score a cigar an 88, I assume he means it was an average experience with a little disappointment.  Few people would set out to smoke an 88 if given options.

90-91 denotes a satisfactory cigar.  One that would be good for another go.

92+ means excitement is building.

Price becomes a factor in of course.  $6-10 for a 90?   Ok.  $27?  Much better options are available.  Cigar budgets and levels of drunken decision-making vary...  when is the breathalyzer initiated credit card going to be available?

[Chibearsv]

8 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

let's say that Ken and I both really liked a cigar.....but ken thought it a tad better than I did because he had this golden second third of caramel.  He gave it a 94.  I really liked the cigar but didn't get the orchestra. I gave it a 91. 

on a 1-5 scale   Ken would be a 4? and I would be a 3?

Seems a little unfair. They should both be 4. 

maybe half points is the way. 

Five point scale with half points sounds like a 10 point scale to me.  I think this is making more sense.  Ken could give his cigar a 9 and you could give it an 8 and both may be relatively high praise as long as (to @Cigar Surgeon's point) more of the scale gets used overall.  

[Bijan]

15 minutes ago, djrey said:

I use 100 pt because since I was a kid in school I’ve been graded on the 100 pt scale. Wine is also in 100 pts. 5 and 10’s are far too restrictive to me. I think of it like tools. A mechanic doesn’t have 5 wrenches nor does a painter have 5 brushes to paint a picture. No offense to 5 point users but a 4/5 means a lot less that say an 87 (to me). Keep in mind 4/5 translates to an 80. To me that’s pretty bad... so you either have a totally flawless wouldn’t change a thing perfect 5/5 cigar or a this cigar has 20% error 4/5 cigar.

To each their own when it comes to rating but I think the 100 pt is standard for good reason. 

To me the 100 points for exams makes sense, in University people got 30s on exams, heck I'm sure people got 0s (I might have gotten one to be honest), and it was based on what they did or didn't do.

If unsmokeable is 80, and perfect is 100. I don't see an unsmokable cigar as 80% as good or desirable as a perfect 100 point cigar. So from that perspective it doesn't quite make sense.

Definitely the 5 or 10 points is restrictive. The question is how consistent are the ratings. To me on a day to day basis I can barely take the effort to tell 3s from 4s. I definitely can't consistently rank those same cigars on a real 100 point scale.

If I got 5/5 cigars more often, I'd be interested in more points there though.

Edit: If I'm being 100% honest there are 3 out of the 18 I rated 5/5 that stand out and should be another category .

[Chibearsv]

8 minutes ago, djrey said:

I use 100 pt because since I was a kid in school I’ve been graded on the 100 pt scale. Wine is also in 100 pts. 5 and 10’s are far too restrictive to me. I think of it like tools. A mechanic doesn’t have 5 wrenches nor does a painter have 5 brushes to paint a picture. No offense to 5 point users but a 4/5 means a lot less that say an 87 (to me). Keep in mind 4/5 translates to an 80. To me that’s pretty bad... so you either have a totally flawless wouldn’t change a thing perfect 5/5 cigar or a this cigar has 20% error 4/5 cigar.

To each their own when it comes to rating but I think the 100 pt is standard for good reason. 

Yes but C=75=average and nobody ranks an average cigar a 75

[Cigar Surgeon]

Just now, Chibearsv said:

Five point scale with half points sounds like a 10 point scale to me.  I think this is making more sense.  Ken could give his cigar a 9 and you could give it an 8 and both may be relatively high praise as long as (to @Cigar Surgeon's point) more of the scale gets used overall.  

For us an 8 point cigar is something that will be clearly in the running for the best cigar you've smoked that year, and possibly in the last few years. A 9 would be the best cigar you may have smoked in the last 5 years or more.

Our top rated cigar for 2020 averaged out to 7.12, my personal top was 7.37.  Last year my top rated cigar was 7.52.

[Chibearsv]

8 minutes ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

For us an 8 point cigar is something that will be clearly in the running for the best cigar you've smoked that year, and possibly in the last few years. A 9 would be the best cigar you may have smoked in the last 5 years or more.

Our top rated cigar for 2020 averaged out to 7.12, my personal top was 7.37.  Last year my top rated cigar was 7.52.

Ok, now how are you getting into the decimals?  Is that an average of smoking the same cigar type multiple times?  If you tell me that you are giving an individual cigar exactly a 7.52, I'm back to where I started with the question of how do you get to that number?

[Cigar Surgeon]

4 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

Ok, now how are you getting into the decimals?  Is that an average of smoking the same cigar type multiple times?  If you tell me that you are giving an individual cigar exactly a 7.52, I'm back to where I started with the question of how do you get to that number?

The long form version is: https://developingpalates.com/scoring-system/

The short form version is: cigars are rated on each third flavor (21%), overall experience (22%), burn (6%), and draw (9%).  The weightings seem arbitrary but when you start throwing scores and look at the output number it matches up very closely to what I would guesstimate it should.

When we do panel reviews we typically only smoke a single cigar, but across 4 reviewers. 

[Silverstix]

I don't have terrible luck with cigars that often. If I used that system I'd say yes/1 90% of the time. I'm really interested in avoiding the bottom 5% that are 0s, and even more interested in increasing the share of the top 5% 5/5 cigars which would be 2.
If I had to do 0/1 I wouldn't do it based on whether I'd smoke the cigar again, I'd probably do it based on whether it was an absolutely amazing cigar or not. And 95%+ of cigars would be a 0, and 5% or less would be a 1. It would be a workable system, and would be better at tracking what I'm most interested in. But it still seems weird to either lump in amazing cigars with pretty good cigars, or conversely lump in unsmokeable cigars with average cigars.
Edit: You might want to try the 5 point system. I usually use that. Generally most stuff is 3-4, and amazing stuff is 5. Bad cigars are 1-2. I don't really use 0, so I guess it's the same as 0/4.

Yeah I like the 5 point system too and the way they classify it on CCW. Definitely good if you wanna get a little more detailed than a simple thumbs up or down. Ideally I’d like all my cigars to be 98s or 5/5! Hah but realistically I’ll smoke anything that is consistently a 3/5 or above. I find myself using the 1/0 for my own notes cause all I really care about is did I like it or not. But I will use the 5 points system for a public review because 1/0 doesn’t really give the reader much information at all.


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[Çnote]

55 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

Yes but C=75=average and nobody ranks an average cigar a 75

I'd say that this is due to ratings going hand in hand with marketing to be a sales tool. It's real hard to say that anything under 86-88 is still marketable, so the average curves up, which is another way we can approach/rephrase your original question, why does the 100p scale only have 31p used? 

I'd also add that unless you are using something like @Cigar Surgeon's awesome methods, you're going to subconsciously default to the higher curve that WA/WS/CA have impressed upon the wine buying culture and transposed to the cigar buying culture. An excellent point has been made above with Halfwheel's stingy grades, and I'd point at Burghound for a corollary in the wine world.

[El Presidente]

.........I think once you go into two decimal point territory it is OCD time 

The scoring system one picks is the one that they feel comfortable with. It will suit their personality and largely the flter through which they view life. 

For some it will simply be Crappy, Good, Effme good. There is nothing worng with that either. 

In terms of the 100 point scale, if is far from perfect. It does provide breath of scale however to mentaly paint a picture. You can also make a statement. If Ken and I gave a cigar a 42 then everyone would know that it is meant to be a grave insult. 

[Bijan]

Just now, El Presidente said:

You can also make a statement. If Ken and I gave a cigar a 42 then everyone would know that it is meant to be a grave insult. 

I'm looking forward to your upcoming review of Ken's Monte Cs 😂🤣😂

[Kevin48438]

6 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

.........I think once you go into two decimal point territory it is OCD time 

The scoring system one picks is the one that they feel comfortable with. It will suit their personality and largely the flter through which they view life. 

For some it will simply be Crappy, Good, Effme good. There is nothing worng with that either. 

In terms of the 100 point scale, if it far from perfect. It does provide breath of scale however to mentaly paint a picture. You can also make a statement. If Ken and I gave a cigar a 42 then everyone would know that it is meant to be a grave insult. 

OCD?  Here?

[El Presidente]

Just now, Kevin48438 said:

OCD?  Here?

....hard to believe I know 

[PapaDisco]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

0-5 is a little too restrictive. 20% difference between grades.  

I mean....how bad is your Uber driver if you give him a 2 

Same issue as the 100 point scale. You would rarely use a large part of the scale. 

 

Agree.  The finer differentiation is useful at the upper end, but useless at the bottom.  Whatever you're number is for "Dog Rocket" eliminates the need for any further differentiation of detail below that; unless you find entertainment in that very human of habits, "OMG!  This is awful! Try it!" 😛  Now that I think about it, this could be a fairly entertaining review contest:  it's bad?  Just how bad is it??  

[sho671]

6 hours ago, Silverstix said:

I think the user on this forum that does the 1/0 binary scale has it right - it could boil down to a simple "would I smoke this again or not?'

I was rating my cigars for the reviews on here with a 0/1 binary scale and it it come down to if I enjoyed it or not. I switched to a 0-5 scale more recently just to test it out. But I'm not sure which one I necessarily prefer.

[Cigar Surgeon]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

.........I think once you go into two decimal point territory it is OCD time 

The scoring system one picks is the one that they feel comfortable with. It will suit their personality and largely the flter through which they view life. 

For some it will simply be Crappy, Good, Effme good. There is nothing worng with that either. 

In terms of the 100 point scale, if is far from perfect. It does provide breath of scale however to mentaly paint a picture. You can also make a statement. If Ken and I gave a cigar a 42 then everyone would know that it is meant to be a grave insult. 

For us the decimal places is an output, and is only reflective of the calculation.

The input for each category is simply Bad, Poor, Subpar, Average, Good, Very Good, or Amazing. You plug in the rating, the spreadsheet does the rest.

So when you say "Good" I automatically think - somewhere between a 6 and 7. 

2 hours ago, Çnote said:

I'd also add that unless you are using something like @Cigar Surgeon's awesome methods,

Credit where credit is due. I'm just a writer and a content creator, all credit goes to Aaron and Jiunn who are the site owners.

[Meklown]

7 hours ago, Bijan said:

two 69s

That's arguably the best score they gave. The lowest, sure, but the best

[djrey]

4 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Yes but C=75=average and nobody ranks an average cigar a 75

Just playing devils advocate but where does a C equal average? Certainly not in my schooling. 

[Bijan]

4 minutes ago, djrey said:

Just playing devils advocate but where does a C equal average? Certainly not in my schooling. 

Didn't track class average grades in university. But in high school averages were almost always in the 70s. Would be shocked if they were much higher when I studied engineering in university, the department didn't grade to a curve although I believe that was university policy elsewhere.