Bolivar No3 Tubos

[Enduin]

I just smoked my first one from the box I got a couple of months ago and besides tasting a bit young I was amazed at how good it was! And now I read that they might have been discontinued? Does anybody have more info about whether or not it was actually discontinued? That would be absolutely tragic, such a good little cigar!

 

[NSXCIGAR]

BT3 have always been excellent. Little firecrackers I call them. I have even heard it claimed on a good day they might be the best Bolivar model...

I believe these were on an official HSA cut list in 2019 but production has continued unlike the BT1 which did disappear quickly after the cut was announced. Might be going the way of the Fonseca No. 1--officially cut but still in production.

[Enduin]

Cut but still in production would be fine by me! I don't seem to find it anywhere so I was wondering if they are indeed done...

I would also be curious to hear if anybody ever aged them and how do they behave. From what I tasted it seemed like something that would age really well, but I also know some people have some reservations about the tubos thing. 

[Tstew75]

They are 86'd, same as the PLP

Latest code I own/have seen is TUA MAR 20

[JohnS]

5th Avenue (the German Distributor) listed the Bolivar Tubos No.3 as discontinued in their last list but recently, on our forum, @ATGroom pointed out that it may have been the Marevas-sized (42 ring gauge x 129 mm) Bolivar Tubos No.2 that ended up deleted from regular production. I think he has a fair point for two reasons:

1) As @ATGroomhas mentioned, the Bolivar Tubos No.3 is currently widely available amongst vendors whereas the Bolivar Tubos Bo.2 is not

2) It corresponds with the discontinuations of cigars similar in size to the Bolivar Tubos No.2 in recent years. Cigars of a small panatela size such as the Bolivar Tubos No.3 (i.e 34 ring gauge x 125 mm) have not been anywhere near as targeted for deletion in the last decade, for example. (Then again, there is less of them anyway!)

[Enduin]

47 minutes ago, Tstew75 said:

They are 86'd, same as the PLP

Latest code I own/have seen is TUA MAR 20

 

The box I have is a TUA MAY 20 so there was at least one more code made...

 

35 minutes ago, JohnS said:

5th Avenue (the German Distributor) listed the Bolivar Tubos No.3 as discontinued in their last list but recently, on our forum, @ATGroom pointed out that it may have been the Marevas-sized (42 ring gauge x 129 mm) Bolivar Tubos No.2 that ended up deleted from regular production. I think he has a fair point for two reasons:

1) As @ATGroom, the Bolivar Tubos No.3 is currently widely available amongst vendors whereas the Bolivar Tubos Bo.2 is not

2) It corresponds with the discontinuations of cigars similar in size to the Bolivar Tubos No.2 in recent years. Cigars of a small panatela size such as the Bolivar Tubos No.3 (i.e 34 ring gauge x 125 mm) have not been anywhere near as targeted for deletion in the last decade, for example. (Then again, there is less of them anyway!)

 

That is an interesting hypothesis @JohnS ! As far as it being widely available among vendors, are you talking about brick and mortar vendors? Granted I only know of one trusted online vendor in addition to our host, but a quick google search returned a bunch of websites (no idea if legit or not) that were showing the Boli No3 "out of stock". I haven't in fact seen one single online vendor that had it in stock... 

[JohnS]

18 minutes ago, Enduin said:

That is an interesting hypothesis @JohnS ! As far as it being widely available among vendors, are you talking about brick and mortar vendors? Granted I only know of one trusted online vendor in addition to our host, but a quick google search returned a bunch of websites (no idea if legit or not) that were showing the Boli No3 "out of stock". I haven't in fact seen one single online vendor that had it in stock... 

Without directly mentioning vendor names (as that would be a contravention of our FoH forum guidelines), there is currently one major on-line vendor that has it in stock. My personal take on this is from what's occurred in 2020. In the last say twelve to fifteen months the Bolivar Tubos No.3 has indeed been readily available on-line whereas the Bolivar Tubos No.2 has not in comparison.

It may still stand to reason that the Bolivar Tubos No.3 may still be 'on the way out', colloquially speaking. Time will tell...

[NSXCIGAR]

58 minutes ago, Tstew75 said:

They are 86'd, same as the PLP

Latest code I own/have seen is TUA MAR 20

I think a MAR 20 code makes a more compelling case for them still being produced. Last code seen for BCJ is ENE 20 I believe, and they're not going anywhere.

 

46 minutes ago, JohnS said:

5th Avenue (the German Distributor) listed the Bolivar Tubos No.3 as discontinued in their last list

I wasn't keeping track but if it was a distributor list I wouldn't put much stock in that. The Fonseca No. 1 was listed in a HSA release and CCW moved it back to current and does have a special notation for it: Although officially discontinued in 2012, these were still in production at least as recently as 2017.

I'm not sure why but I hadn't noticed the BT2 disappearing at all. It has indeed vanished. I would say at this point the BT2 is gone and the BT3 will live on. Unless @ATGroom has an HSA source, I would move it back to current production. If there is an HSA source it should be notated similar to the Fonseca No.1.

[La_Tigre]

48 minutes ago, JohnS said:

5th Avenue (the German Distributor) listed the Bolivar Tubos No.3 as discontinued in their last list but recently, on our forum, @ATGroom pointed out that it may have been the Marevas-sized (42 ring gauge x 129 mm) Bolivar Tubos No.2 that ended up deleted from regular production. I think he has a fair point for two reasons:

1) As @ATGroomhas mentioned, the Bolivar Tubos No.3 is currently widely available amongst vendors whereas the Bolivar Tubos Bo.2 is not

2) It corresponds with the discontinuations of cigars similar in size to the Bolivar Tubos No.2 in recent years. Cigars of a small panatela size such as the Bolivar Tubos No.3 (i.e 34 ring gauge x 125 mm) have not been anywhere near as targeted for deletion in the last decade, for example. (Then again, there is less of them anyway!)

Well, heck, just bought a box of 3 to have and hold. How does one know what to get these days!!!!? Don’t have any 1 or 2 boxes. 

[Bijan]

2 hours ago, La_Tigre said:

Well, heck, just bought a box of 3 to have and hold. How does one know what to get these days!!!!? Don’t have any 1 or 2 boxes. 

I bought 2 boxes of the 3. But I like them so I'm not too sad

Also seeing a fair bit of TUA MAY 20 Bolivar Tubos No. 3 from one vendor.

[saltbox]

34 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I think a MAR 20 code makes a more compelling case for them still being produced. Last code seen for BCJ is ENE 20 I believe, and they're not going anywhere.

I've got TUA MAY 20 boxes of both the Corona Junior and the Tubo No. 3.

[NSXCIGAR]

16 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Also seeing a fair bit of TUA MAY 20 Bolivar Tubos No. 3 from one vendor.

Yeah, BT3 is alive and kicking. Good to hear. It's a great cigar, although quite small and a bit overpriced (certainly due to the tubes). If they were available in dress boxes for $4-5 each they'd be in my regular rotation. 

[Enduin]

I'm aware of the rules about vendors in the forum so I won't ask, I'm going to do another search since clearly I missed some vendors, although I'm not sure I would feel ok ordering from an unknown source. I'm really hoping they are indeed still being produced, maybe at a slower rate. I would hate to have found such a gem just to have it disappear... 

[Bijan]

11 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Yeah, BT3 is alive and kicking. Good to hear. It's a great cigar, although quite small and a bit overpriced (certainly due to the tubes). If they were available in dress boxes for $4-5 each they'd be in my regular rotation. 

They're the same price as BCJ. A fair bit lighter but smoke time is similar for me. I'd rather not have the tube but it is what it is.

[ATGroom]

Bolivar Tubos No.3 was listed as discontinued on the 2019 5th Avenue list, which is generally the only cut list that is publicly released. I asked a contact at another distributor who seemed to confirm it ("seems legit" was basically the response). Rob gave a similar response.

I would say that we're not out of the woods yet with that MAY 20 code - "one last batch" is very normal. It's in stock at 3/5 of the largest internet vendors right now and at a discount at one of them. No.2 I can find one box in stock after checking 20 or so vendors. When the cigar was cut, Cuba would have used every remaining No.3 tube they had, so perhaps that's what this last batch is about, just using up supplies. And similarly, maybe they're out of stock of No.2 tubes right now so that cigar is on hiatus. (side note: I wonder if tubes in general will be in short supply in 2021 due to covid supply issues, both budgetary and logistical?)

Without knowing anything about the sales figures, I would say that the No.3 seems more likely to be cut. @JohnS pointed out that a lot more Marevas have been cut than Placeras - well, I would make the opposite case... the Tubos No.3 is the last Placeras in production. The size is clearly not as popular as the Marevas. Why go through the hassle of keeping a mould around etc when you can crank out another cigar in the most widely produced size.

Also, the fact that the No.3 is around while the No.2 isn't could well indicate that the No.2 sells and the No.3 doesn't.

The case of the Fonseca No.1 I put down to "things change" more than anyone being mistaken or deliberately trying to drum up sales or anything like that. I think the 5th Avenue list is probably strong enough to be taken at face value at the time it was written, and I don't think the case is strong enough yet to indicate that something has changed. If different information comes to light or if in a year the No.3 is still everywhere with recent codes and the No.2 is still nowhere, I'll reconsider that position.

[NSXCIGAR]

42 minutes ago, Lrabold89 said:

The best bolivar model!? My goodness ..... please elaborate sir!

I'm not saying it is unequivocally the best, but I would say it's certainly the strongest. And the earthiest. 

Personally, when at their best, I think the BCJ is Bolivar's best model. But getting one that good is rare. 

BRC is a castrated waste of a Robustos. I don't want a light dusting of cocoa powder in a Bolivar. That's what Monte Edmundos are for.

BBF, too rough around the edges. Murky blend. Libertadores, like the BRC, castrated. BPC tastes like burnt coffee.

This is coming from someone who considered the BRC their favorite cigar at one time and who loved BCE. I also did think the 15-16 BCG were very, very good but not in a classic Bolivar way. Those BCGs had much more substance than Libertadores do. 

[Cairo]

6 hours ago, Enduin said:

I would also be curious to hear if anybody ever aged them and how do they behave

I have been working through a ULA May 14 box of Tubos No. 3.   They remain the strongest Bolivar I have smoked--great little sticks with a nice touch of sweetness.

[Bijan]

5 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm not saying it is unequivocally the best, but I would say it's certainly the strongest. And the earthiest. 

Personally, when at their best, I think the BCJ is Bolivar's best model. But getting one that good is rare. 

BRC is a castrated waste of a Robustos. I don't want a light dusting of cocoa powder in a Bolivar. That's what Monte Edmundos are for.

BBF, too rough around the edges. Murky blend. Libertadores, like the BRC, castrated. BPC tastes like burnt coffee.

This is coming from someone who considered the BRC their favorite cigar at one time and who loved BCE. I also did think the 15-16 BCG were very, very good but not in a classic Bolivar way. Those BCGs had much more substance than Libertadores do. 

I don't want to agree with this but I do find myself smoking more BCJ than any of the others beside the tubos no. 3. I still like the BPC only because the construction seems to be more consistent than the BCJ. I'll have to try a BRC again. I felt that they were the next strongest Robusto after the RASS, and before the PSD4. But I smoke a lot of small cigars so to me Robustos are strong just for being Robustos. I'll say the tubos no. 3 are the most flavourful of the bunch: spicy, earthy (the others have an earth flavour, but it's more like dust in comparison) and sweet.

[Enduin]

1 hour ago, Cairo said:

I have been working through a ULA May 14 box of Tubos No. 3.   They remain the strongest Bolivar I have smoked--great little sticks with a nice touch of sweetness.

Nice! Did you notice any development in the flavor profile that was noteworthy? The one I smoked was absolutely full of flavor, but a little bit rough around the edges. I know while I was smoking I kept thinking how much potential it had to become something really special if the flavors could become more refined and with better separation with a few years...

[Cairo]

23 minutes ago, Enduin said:

something really special if the flavors could become more refined and with better separation with a few years

I think it will take more than seven years for these cigars to "get refined".    They are still powerhouses.   

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

I do find myself smoking more BCJ than any of the others beside the tubos no. 3.

BCJ, to me, is the closest to the classic Bolivar blend of leather, wood, earth and most importantly, that dried fruit/raisin flavor that has all but vanished from Boli. When they're on, wow. Unfortunately, it seems like I get one or if I'm lucky two in a box that deliver like that. Been a consistent phenomenon for me with BCJ for at least a decade. 

BT3, I respect for it's strength and earthiness which it has maybe more than any other cigar. Never tannic or bitter. And yes, there's that sweetness in there with just enough spice for a great balance, which is remarkable for a cigar of that size. 

Boy, would I love to have the BT3 blend in a Ninfas or Deliciosos vitola. A Delicados like the Especiales No. 2--yes please. 

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

BCJ, to me, is the closest to the classic Bolivar blend of leather, wood, earth and most importantly, that dried fruit/raisin flavor that has all but vanished from Boli. When they're on, wow. Unfortunately, it seems like I get one or if I'm lucky two in a box that deliver like that. Been a consistent phenomenon for me with BCJ for at least a decade. 

I don't get that much of a difference between the BPC and the BCJ. They both are leather and earth, and then a variety of flavours depending on my luck. I actually had a BPC with dried berry flavour last night, though I thought it was due to the wrapper being fireproof on one side causing it to burn weird.

5 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

A Delicados like the Especiales No. 2--yes please. 

Technically a Delicados would be an Especial ("no. 1") without the pigtail  Like the Partagas SdC No. 1.

[NSXCIGAR]

43 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Technically a Delicados would be an Especial ("no. 1") without the pigtail  Like the Partagas SdC No. 1.

I was referring to the Boli Especiales No. 2 ER, but yes, the original Boli Especiales (2) was a Delicados as was the Party SdC 1. 

[Bijan]

4 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I was referring to the Boli Especiales No. 2 ER, but yes, the original Boli Especiales (2) was a Delicados as was the Party SdC 1. 

Oh right I was thinking current regular production.

Last time I came across that one was when looking for cigars that came in foil bundles.

[NSXCIGAR]

8 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Though there was a quite rare Especiales (2), that may or may not have existed.

They existed. MRN photographed his own box in the book. Says he's aware of 4 or 5 other boxes among HK collectors. They are far more rare than the original Gold Medals. He said he couldn't resist smoking one (which makes me think he's got two boxes) and it was incredible. Earthiest cigar he's ever smoked. 

Maybe @nino can get one out of him next time he's with him. 

The only other cigar I thought perhaps never existed but I've seen pics of is the Monte 6 or 7. They did exist but I've only seen a pic of one box ever that was purchased in Cuba circa 1979-80.