Cohiba Pricing

[PapaDisco]

I would have thought this had already been discussed, but I've searched FOH and haven't found anything yet.

What's up with Habanos' pricing strategy for Cohiba over the last couple of years?  Was this originally (originally, not currently) truly demand driven?  Or were they deliberately marketing to a "Pappy's" strategy: create demand by using price to indicate exclusiveness?  Or was there something supply side driving this?

Truly just curious about the marketing 'art' on display with this.  I don't want to make this a Cohiba gripe thread or anything.  Just wondering.  Raising price does seem to have raised demand, but that's just my amateur impression.

[NSXCIGAR]

I've only seen a disproportionate jump in price for Siglo VI, Lanceros and Esplendidos. The rest seem to be on a more linear path. They seem pretty consistent raising prices about 10% every 2-3 years. CoRo does seem to have jumped about 20%. One day they were $400 and it seemed like the next day they were $490. 

I'm sure they are prepared to take a more "luxury pricing" approach with Cohiba to find out where the line is. Siglo VI for $900 and they still sell out, so that's not helping the cause. I guess they haven't found the line yet. Cohiba does have that halo effect and is somewhat impervious to overpricing. Like Porsche and Ferrari, I'm sure if they raised all prices by 10% tomorrow it wouldn't make much difference .

I will say Monte 3 & 4 have also had a fairly large bump in the last 18 mos. Connie 1, A and B also. I'm talking over a 10% bump quite quickly. 

[El Presidente]

HSA has hit most of the Cohiba line with a 5%, 8%, 10% rise in the past three years. Some more. 

Supply issues in 2020/21 means little discounting. 

USD correction around 15% in past 18 months. 

[Bijan]

8 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I will say Monte 3 & 4 have also had a fairly large bump in the last 18 mos.

Monte has been pretty modest except for that was looking at 2010 pricing on 2 and 4 and it wasn't crazy out of line with current pricing.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

Monte has been pretty modest except for that was looking at 2010 pricing on 2 and 4 and it wasn't crazy out of line with current pricing.

I think it's a little deceptive in terms of percentage jump because of lower price. I recall Monte 4 in 2017-2019 being around $145. Now it's ~$175. That's a 20% bump in just 18 mos. Monte 3 was ~$175 and now it can't be found for under $200--also a 20% jump.

Monte 1 & 2 however haven't jumped that much. 2017-2019 prices were about $225 for the 1 and $260 for the 2. Today, 1 can be readily found for $255 and the 2 for $285. So only a 12% jump for both.

5, I haven't looked at but it does seem like it's closer to the 20%. I could count on them being about $120 from 2017-2019 and now I'm seeing them in the $140 range.

 

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

HSA has hit most of the Cohiba line with a 5%, 8%, 10% rise in the past three years.

The price math makes sense if that is indeed compounded. Had they been increasing every year in the past or is an annual increase recent?

[Bijan]

5 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I think it's a little deceptive in terms of percentage jump because of lower price. I recall Monte 4 in 2017-2019 being around $145. Now it's ~$175. That's a 20% bump in just 18 mos. Monte 3 was ~$175 and now it can't be found for under $200--also a 20% jump.

Monte 1 & 2 however haven't jumped that much. 2017-2019 prices were about $225 for the 1 and $260 for the 2. Today, 1 can be found for $255 and the 2 for $280 easily. So only a 12% jump for the 1 and a 11% jump for the 2.

5, I haven't looked at but it does seem like it's closer to the 20%. I could count on them being about $120 from 2017-2019 and now I'm seeing them in the $140 range.

I think we're getting very close to the rule about not discussing pricing.

But here is a link to a forum post for a 24:24 equivalent from 2010 for HQ Monte 2 and HQ and PSP 4.

 

[NSXCIGAR]

2 minutes ago, Bijan said:

I think we're getting very close to the rule about not discussing pricing.

Discussion of pricing without sources is permitted. In this case, I'm basing pricing estimates on past FOH prices.

[Bijan]

1 minute ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Discussion of pricing without sources is permitted. In this case, I'm basing pricing estimates on past FOH prices.

Good to know.

Anyways by my estimates from FOH the top end Cohiba has gone up 250% in the same time as Monte 2/4 has gone up maybe 20-30%

Edit: That's in the last 7-10 years.

[NSXCIGAR]

Just now, Bijan said:

Anyways by my estimates from FOH the top end Cohiba has gone up 250% in the same time as Monte 2/4 has gone up maybe 20-30%

No doubt, Cohiba has far outpaced all other marcas. But some models have been much more linear than others. Monte has also outpaced the rest on some models but some like 1, 2, E, PE and DE have been remarkably stable.

8 minutes ago, Bijan said:

But here is a link to a forum post for a 24:24 equivalent from 2010 for HQ Monte 2 and HQ and PSP 4.

Wow, those prices seem way high. Maybe Rob's margins have gone down since 2010...I think the last Lusi 10s he put up a month or so ago were the same price or less! And I have personally ordered PLPC from Rob in 2015-2016 that was less than that price.

[Bijan]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Wow, those prices seem way high. Maybe Rob's margins have gone down since 2010...I think the last Lusi 10s he put up a month or so ago were the same price or less! And I have personally ordered PLPC from Rob in 2015-2016 that was less than that price.

I'm not in my math mode right now, but USD fluctuates a lot over time so that may account for some of it.

But PLPC was basically at current prices 20 years ago when on sale ($250 a cab being a good price)...

 

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Wow, those prices seem way high.

Check out page 2:

"Thin and slim sexy sampler 

One of each

$75 USD / $149 AUSD

Trinidad Fundadores - OUR MAY 08

La Gloria D'or No 2 - TEB JUN 07

Partagas 898 - ERO ABR 09

HDM De Gourmet - GLA JUN 08

HDM Du Dauphin - RSE SEP 01

HDM Des Dieux - PSO JUL 08

Cohiba Exquisitos - OEB MAY 08"

[El Presidente]

12 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The price math makes sense if that is indeed compounded. Had they been increasing every year in the past or is an annual increase recent?

For many years it was a  3-4% annual increase 

2007/8/9/10 there was zero increase from memory. Post GFC. 

However they will hit certain cigars. VI/Esplendido/lancero all got whacked 10% + last year. similar for QD line and certain Trinidad. 

They do what they want. 

[Cairo]

What has gotten my attention is that the dollar price differential between the Cohibas and everything else is increasing significantly over the past few years.

It is very difficult for me to buy Cohibas when I look at what outstanding cigars I could be buying instead--example Esmeraldas or SWs vs Sig VI. 

[Bijan]

9 minutes ago, juri said:

does anyone remember what the launch price of cohiba siglo vi in 2003 was? i remember buying a box the first year they came out and thought it was nuts.... today i wish i could get those prices 

Lowest I've heard discussed recently was $350 but that was a few years after launch.

Edit: Cigar aficionado article on the launch:

Estimating somewhere in the 300s, ($15 a stick at one point and just over $325 a box elsewhere):

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/for-the-love-of-cohiba-8221

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, juri said:

does anyone remember what the launch price of cohiba siglo vi in 2003 was? i remember buying a box the first year they came out and thought it was nuts.... today i wish i could get those prices 

I don't specifically recall the price in 03-04 but in a thread last week I noted that I recalled Siglo VI in the high 300s around 08-09. I would guess it was around $350 on release. I do know it was priced consistently with the rest of the Siglos by mass which was still true until 2019 when Siglo VI suddenly exploded in price.

[PapaDisco]

Most of the other marcas seem pretty close to gradual inflation of some level.  And many of them are still hovering around the $300/25ct box level; a bit more, a bit less depending on the stick.  Cohibas give one the impression that there's a deliberate marketing strategy at work, but when has Habanos ever had a deliberate marketing strategy??   J/K.  Maybe it's just the supply issue El Pres speaks of.

Bourbon in the last 5 years has given the consumer a painful lesson in price inelasticity: $80 bottles of Pappy Van Winkle going for $500, then $800; Weller's follows suit 5 years later, etc.  All an interesting marketing case study in luxury goods pricing and demand.  The bourbons demonstrated not just demand inelasticity but accelerating 'inelasticity' if there is such a thing (essentially higher pricing created the illusion of scarcity and increased demand).

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

Check out page 2:

Seems pretty standard for the time. $10 each. Fundy would have been around $12-13 but the $6-8 Hoyos make up for it. CE was about $9, 898 about $9 and MdO2 was about $9. 

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

I'm not in my math mode right now, but USD fluctuates a lot over time so that may account for some of it.

But PLPC was basically at current prices 20 years ago when on sale ($250 a cab being a good price)...

Those prices were in USD, and with inflation, that $225 box of PSD4 would be $271 by the most conservative CPI estimate I could find. I have never seen a box of even PSP that high on 24:24 to this day.

The last PLPC on 24:24 sold for pretty close to $285. And again, that $285 would be $340 today with inflation.

1 hour ago, Cairo said:

It is very difficult for me to buy Cohibas when I look at what outstanding cigars I could be buying instead--example Esmeraldas or SWs vs Sig VI. 

It's not Esmeraldas or SW vs Siglo VI--it's Esmeraldas and SW vs Siglo VI. 

[Bijan]

17 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Those prices were in USD, and with inflation, that $225 box of PSD4 would be $271 by the most conservative CPI estimate I could find. I have never seen a box of even PSP that high on 24:24 to this day.

I have the listings from last year. I've seen above that price for PSP, December 16th 2020.

Edit: Potentially other dates too.

 

17 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The last PLPC on 24:24 sold for pretty close to $285. And again, that $285 would be $340 today with inflation.

PLPC is definitely dropping in value with inflation considered. Likely dropping in nominal dollars too some of the time 😂

Edit: I have a link to a 2005 forum post where someone is amazed (!!! marks) they are available at a price a few dollars higher than what I paid last year!

[Bijan]

1 minute ago, juri said:

back when i got that box i was just starting to get into cubans and that box is when i made the switch to mostly cubans... i cant recall the place i got them from but ironic i remember they were based in australia before that i mostly bought them from a swiss site .... i dont think foh/czar was around back then were they?

First czar incarnation in 1996:

 

[SinBarnizar]

I've spent 50k in cigars last 2 years (not saying impressive or anything like that) and 0 cohibas. I just can't justify Cohiba Robustos being 2.5X the price of Royal Coronas when some are not even good and almost all need aging. It's a shame because I really miss some cohiba flavors but I am not gonna get ripped off. If they were priced more like Trinidads (Medio Siglo box 15 going for 180 like Vigia Trinidad) I would be game, but not paying 2 to almost 3 times cigars that are as good or more in flavor from partagas , boli , juan lopez , uppman etc.

 

fact that you can get a Double Corona Ramon Allones (Gigantes) for same price as a box of 15 robusto cohiba is ridiculous 

[NSXCIGAR]

13 minutes ago, Bijan said:

I have the listings from last year. I've seen above that price for PSP, December 16th 2020.

Yikes.

But, those 2010s were only HQ. 

[Bijan]

6 minutes ago, SinBarnizar said:

I've spent 50k in cigars last 2 years (not saying impressive or anything like that) and 0 cohibas. I just can't justify Cohiba Robustos being 2.5X the price of Royal Coronas when some are not even good and almost all need aging. It's a shame because I really miss some cohiba flavors but I am not gonna get ripped off. If they were priced more like Trinidads (Medio Siglo box 15 going for 180 like Vigia Trinidad) I would be game, but not paying 2 to almost 3 times cigars that are as good or more in flavor from partagas , boli , juan lopez , uppman etc.

 

fact that you can get a Double Corona Ramon Allones (Gigantes) for same price as a box of 15 robusto cohiba is ridiculous 

I've spent about half that in the past year. I bought 10% Cohibas. And the Cohibas were about 20% of my budget, and that's partly because half the boxes I bought were sub $150.

[NSXCIGAR]

The last Cohiba I actually purchased was a 10 box of Secretos on sale for about $100 a couple years ago. Actually, I did buy 4 CoRo singles from the LCDH seconds bin for $50 a couple months ago. Other than that, I have a hard time putting the coin there , especially after the last round of price hikes. 

[Hammer Smokin']

and yet they continue to sell out at record high pricing. 

someone must be buying them, lol. 

[Chibearsv]

3 minutes ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

and yet they continue to sell out at record high pricing. 

someone must be buying them, lol. 

You and me 😁

[Cairo]

I bookmarked a video made by Voice of America on the 2010 infamous Chicago seizure--here it is if anyone is interested: