Just a few thoughts on regular production vs REs and LEs


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6 hours ago, joeypots said:

True, he made some terrible movies after the success of Good Will Hunting.

You trying to say Gigli wasn't a masterpiece? 

Seriously though, I was quite impressed with Gone Baby Gone and The Town after a couple of viewings. Obviously, Argo is excellent. However, I understand he had a lot of direct and indirect studio assistance from both. It appears Live By Night was really his first true full-control go at things and I must say, that film is a mess. I would say he seems to be a director that can be outstanding when kept reigned in. 

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53 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

By mediocre perhaps I should have used "good". I'm certainly not using the term mediocre in a disparaging way. I consider a mediocre cigar to be the baseline of a cigar I would buy. As is the case with just about everything, there's a bell curve. Most CCs are in the middle. 

Most people forget special production pricing was much more in line with regular production until about 2011. The original ELs and ERs were quite low priced. HSA had no idea whether it could work since they were basically selling seconds leaf and just happy to blow it out the door. As far as the ERs, they came along in 05 with far less production numbers than today (30,000 sticks was a big run compared to today's 60,000 stick minimums). Online sales weren't a big thing yet so the retailers were stuck with having to move most in-region. Priced had to be kept somewhat down.

People, including myself, were able to evaluate the early special productions without the expectations created by a higher price, and the opinions were generally unfavorable. I would try a single from time to time at the LCDH between 03-8 but never would I buy a box of specials. I did but a few boxes of ERs for both smoking and investment between 08-10 and that worked out fine, but again, the prices were very reasonable. I paid $185 for RA Celestiales Finos and $400 for Boli Especiales No. 2. 

Shortly after, special production really shot up in price. Since 03 when I had bought some boxes of ELs and was disappointed, I have not, to this day, purchased a box of ELs. I try them from time to time at the LCDH and not one has ever caught my fancy to the point where I want to pay more than a box of Sir Winston for them.

I will still snag a reasonably priced 10-box of ERs like the LGC D5 or LFDC Magicos just for kicks. But the days of $10/stick ERs are likely quickly fading.

 

I'm definitely not arguing that the EL/ER reputation is undeserved, but I can just tell first hand that the price point sets an expectation on what I'm getting, so I think that, especially with today's prices, it's a not insignificant factor. You don't expect to be blown away by a 5 bucks stick, so unless it's unsmokeable you'll likely give it a pass even if it's not very complex, needs a touch up or two, etc. At 15-20 bucks if all I get is coffee and toast I'm gonna be disappointed, and if I have to relight it/touch it up, I'll be annoyed. Then again, if the cigars are legitimately bad, that's even worse!

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8 minutes ago, Enduin said:

I'm definitely not arguing that the EL/ER reputation is undeserved, but I can just tell first hand that the price point sets an expectation on what I'm getting, so I think that, especially with today's prices, it's a not insignificant factor. You don't expect to be blown away by a 5 bucks stick, so unless it's unsmokeable you'll likely give it a pass even if it's not very complex, needs a touch up or two, etc. At 15-20 bucks if all I get is coffee and toast I'm gonna be disappointed, and if I have to relight it/touch it up, I'll be annoyed. Then again, if the cigars are legitimately bad, that's even worse!

I understand. I'm just addressing the psychological aspects of higher expectations with higher price. When the prices weren't higher, people were still disappointed. I don't think ELs have really had some kind of monumental transition since then. They are much better but I still see them as being closer to their original incarnations than farther from that. So sure, you're going to get more disappointment as prices rise but they were still underwhelming people when prices were much lower. 

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16 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

You trying to say Gigli wasn't a masterpiece? 

Seriously though, I was quite impressed with Gone Baby Gone and The Town after a couple of viewings. Obviously, Argo is excellent. However, I understand he had a lot of direct and indirect studio assistance from both. It appears Live By Night was really his first true full-control go at things and I must say, that film is a mess. I would say he seems to be a director that can be outstanding when kept reigned in. 

No argument here. I forgot about Gone Baby Gone, great flick.  I used to go swimming in those quarries before the authorities shut it down.

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