A find from grandfather's closet...

[nKostyan]

A guest on one of the cigar forums asked whether it is really possible to restore a cigar by wetting it with tap water, as in this video

 
We laughed for a long time and finally persuaded him not to do it. When asked what kind of cigars he was going to restore, he showed photos that opened everyone's mouths...
 

 
If I have seen photos of similar Cohiba Lanceros at the photos from internet early, I see Coronas Especiales for the first time. I think everyone will also be interested to see it...

[GaryK 54]

14 minutes ago, nKostyan said:

 

A guest on one of the cigar forums asked whether it is really possible to restore a cigar by wetting it with tap water, as in this video

 

We laughed for a long time and finally persuaded him not to do it. When asked what kind of cigars he was going to restore, he showed photos that opened everyone's mouths...

 

 

If I have seen photos of similar Cohiba Lanceros at the photos from internet early, I see Petit Coronas Especiales for the first time. I think everyone will also be interested to see it...

 

Wow. Great photos (and story) of a complete box of Cohiba Lanceros with the Std A band. Do you have the date from the box? These were produced from 1969 thru the early ‘70s. What a beautiful long panetela. Thanks for sharing. 

[NSXCIGAR]

The Lanceros, if real, are in the diplomatic presentation boxes still used today. Nothing too special.

The old Cohiba CE, those don't look right to me. Bands are different than I've seen for the Cohibas of that era and the box and stickers just don't look like something produced at that time.

[nKostyan]

I hope someone from the collectors will go to visit this person, look and make high-quality photos.

 

11 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The old Cohiba CE, those don't look right to me. Bands are different than I've seen for the Cohibas of that era and the box and stickers just don't look like something produced at that time.

 

I can't say anything about the bands, I've never seen anything like this "in live"
Here's another box from the 1970s that I know the collector who owns it

 

[ATGroom]

Nino has pictures of an early CE box here: http://flyingcigar.de/startseite/extremely-rare-cohibas-on-valentines-day/. The OPs pictures look correct to that box as far as I'm concerned.

The Lanceros also look correct to the diplo box, without any of the obvious flaws most of the fakes have (uneven white border around the head and leaf being a very common one). Would need more pictures to get an exact read on the era, but it's at least pre-2000 based on the seal. They're nowhere near as rare and priceless as the CEs, but a 20+ year old diplo box of Lanceros is hardly valueless.

Also, like Dave in the video, I too will admit to being a regular rinser, especially of the old stuff. The purpose is not to "restore an old cigar" - if they've been sitting unhumidified for decades then nothing is going to do that. But it does help even out the burn.

[Fuzz]

29 minutes ago, ATGroom said:

Also, like Dave in the video, I too will admit to being a regular rinser, especially of the old stuff. The purpose is not to "restore an old cigar" - if they've been sitting unhumidified for decades then nothing is going to do that. But it does help even out the burn.

I thought you were just rinsing off the dust from years spent in a wardrobe.

[Mickey D]

Absolutely amazing.

[Edicion]

Saw this Lanceros box recently (my photos). They looked stunning, went for $$$$... 

[Bijan]

7 hours ago, Edicion said:

Saw this Lanceros box recently (my photos). They looked stunning, went for $$$$...

Based on the bands those are pretty recent (forgot they used current bands on new diplomatic gifts and was thinking 😂). I think someone posted such a box signed by Fidel Castro. I mean other than the relative rarity of the box, I can't think that the cigars would be any different from regular production lanceros now, and I'd rather have a boite nature than a dress box.

 

Just watched the whole video. Did he say he stores them at 72% RH?

[Nino]

Many cigars & boxes mixed up here.

Interesting to see a 30+ yr old cigar in cellophane being "pristine" after so many years, no yellowing, no colouring..... what a "miracle" !!

🙂

 

 

 

10 hours ago, nKostyan said:

 

I can't say anything about the bands, I've never seen anything like this "in live"
Here's another box from the 1970s that I know the collector who owns it

 

Hmmmm ... Certainly not 70's. It only existed in 1969 for a short time. Never seen that band on top with the additional saying.

[jonnyfromiranny]

At a certain point, it feels almost criminal to smoke them.

I wonder if those will ever get smoked...

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, Nino said:

Interesting to see a 30+ yr old cigar in cellophane being "pristine" after so many years, no yellowing, no colouring..... what a "miracle" !!

🙂

The vintage and pre embargo "fakeristas" appear to be a tightly controlled industry. I didn't understand the scale of it prior to last year. 

[GaryK 54]

15 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The Lanceros, if real, are in the diplomatic presentation boxes still used today. Nothing too special.

The old Cohiba CE, those don't look right to me. Bands are different than I've seen for the Cohibas of that era and the box and stickers just don't look like something produced at that time.

I agree, the bands don’t match the Standard A band of 1969, which was on embossed paper with no writing on the band other than Cohiba. I can’t speak to whether the bands from that era on diplomatic presentation cigars were different than the Standard A band - perhaps? 

Also as I looked closer at the sticker on the inside of the lid on the varnished boite nature box, it refers to the cigars as 50 Coronas Especiales. The dress box is labeled as Lanceros. Hmmmm. 

[NSXCIGAR]

4 hours ago, Nino said:

Hmmmm ... Certainly not 70's. It only existed in 1969 for a short time. Never seen that band on top with the additional saying.

So if 1969 these would have been basically the earliest iteration of Cohiba? Was there any other presentation of this era of Cohiba? If 1969 only what did they look like in the early 70s with original band version?

And I would say the bands on the OP box do look off as well as your observations on the box features.

[KavalanWhisky]

13 hours ago, Edicion said:

Saw this Lanceros box recently (my photos). They looked stunning, went for $$$$... 

@Edicion I recognise those tables...Cigar Ben?

[nKostyan]

Also as I looked closer at the sticker on the inside of the lid on the varnished boite nature box, it refers to the cigars as 50 Coronas Especiales. The dress box is labeled as Lanceros. Hmmmm. 

It's simple, there are three boxes: one Coronas Especiales and two Lanceros (not opened).

[Bijan]

Page 15 of this PDF for a mention/description of "Nino's" box in Min Ron Nee's next edition:

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/cigar book text test print 2014-03-21.pdf

 

[nKostyan]

Many cigars & boxes mixed up here.
Interesting to see a 30+ yr old cigar in cellophane being "pristine" after so many years, no yellowing, no colouring..... what a "miracle" !!

Why are you revealing secrets? Now they will put the fakes in yellow cellophane

[GaryK 54]

15 minutes ago, nKostyan said:

 

It's simple, there are three boxes: one Coronas Especiales and two Lanceros (not opened).

 

Ah, so simple. So we come back to the Standard A band being slightly different than typical. Did diplomatic cigars often have a unique style of the Standard band to distinguish them? Would seem logical to me if that were the case. 

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, GaryK 54 said:

Ah, so simple. So we come back to the Standard A band being slightly different than typical. Did diplomatic cigars often have a unique style of the Standard band to distinguish them? Would seem logical to me if that were the case. 

Looks like the band matches "Nino's box" from Min Ron Nee.

It also vaguely matches CCW (note the faint HABANA)

[GaryK 54]

12 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Looks like the band matches "Nino's box" from Min Ron Nee.

It also vaguely matches CCW (note the faint HABANA)

Thanks for pointing that out. When I checked CCW this morning, I didn’t notice the lettering of HABANA below. I need to upgrade my bifocals, LOL. 

[Edicion]

With all vintage and rare items, provenance is everything. There's always going to be some undocumented artefacts that do not match photos or records available so having a story to match facts always helps to confirm or exclude items. That's what Rick always says on Pawn Stars.

 

[NSXCIGAR]

That page in the new MRN is like MRN literally responding himself in this thread...

So, MRN's box (provenance confirmed by @Nino) is the only example of a box with standard band A known to exist, and was indeed from 1969. Nothing on the box appears to be specific to Cohiba except the bands and a lid sticker, so it's possible these were not produced in any real quantity. A couple boxes, maybe a dozen. The fact that even MRN had never seen one or been aware of one makes me think there only may have ever been a handful ever produced.

I wasn't aware of any examples (apparently neither was MRN until the owner reached out to Nino and showed him.) The image on CCW has been available to everyone for a while apparently (although I've never seen it) so considering the rarity of these cigars provenance would be of the utmost importance for these cigars. This would take some cojones to fake but given its rarity, perhaps it's not that crazy given the only other box in existence sits in MRN's house and wasn't even discovered until 2014. 

These would need a story on par with the Hungarian General-->Nino-->MRN. 

[NSXCIGAR]

15 hours ago, Bijan said:

Based on the bands those are pretty recent (forgot they used current bands on new diplomatic gifts and was thinking 😂). I think someone posted such a box signed by Fidel Castro. I mean other than the relative rarity of the box, I can't think that the cigars would be any different from regular production lanceros now, and I'd rather have a boite nature than a dress box.

Correct, the Diplomatics use the current bands. The old box style is a novelty. Regular production Lanceros. Box might be worth a few extra bucks. 

 

5 hours ago, GaryK 54 said:

I agree, the bands don’t match the Standard A band of 1969, which was on embossed paper with no writing on the band other than Cohiba. I can’t speak to whether the bands from that era on diplomatic presentation cigars were different than the Standard A band - perhaps? 

The bands do look much more spruced up in terms of quality but apparently the bands in this cabinet were indeed fairly well-done as Nino has confirmed the MRN box as genuine and the bands in the OP are identical in style and quality. I had only seen the cheap, papery standard band A as pictured in CCW which is why I expressed some concern. 

If they are fake, they're pretty darn good. Only provenance can determine authenticity at this point. If they are fake, I doubt the faker expected Nino, the only man to ever authenticate a box, to be aware of them!

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

If they are fake, they're pretty darn good. Only provenance can determine authenticity at this point. If they are fake, I doubt the faker expected Nino, the only man to ever authenticate a box, to be aware of them!

Not just that, mind blowing. I mean this is a box only one of which is pictured in that unpublished book and on Nino's blog posting. If the provenance can prove that the box existed before February 2013 when that blog posting was put up, I'd really start to believe it.

I mean fakers don't get the details right on Siglo VI and Esplendidos that are in every LCDH in the world. And they have obvious typos on ELs, last one I remember was RyJ "Exhibision" No. 2 for the 2000 EL.