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6 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

 Did the jab eases of your symptoms? Seems it helps some if there's no organ damage etc from the virus

Not that I've noticed, but then, I'm not certain that is how the vaccine works.  It introduces the COVID RNA so your body can be better equipped to attack it should you be exposed to it.  It is not a remedy.

I am just making a conscious effort to maintain a healthy diet and consistent workout routine hoping that I'm able to get back to where I was. 

I hope you and @griller's wife get back to normal swiftly, as well

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Stop the BS and get the Jab.

good post. i am old enough (just) to remember, as a young kid, the screaming and outrage when seats belts became mandatory (i'm sure if you told a lot of young people about the resistance to wearing s

Do you enjoy your social security checks or will you in the future?( I never will) Cause I sure love giving a couple hundred bucks a paycheck to the least personally responsible generation in history.

On 4/28/2021 at 10:27 AM, FrancisK7 said:

Even if you are vaccinated you can still be a carrier and thus a vector of infection for others.

The vaccine protects against bad prognostics if you do catch it. 

Social distancing measures and masks are still required until we've reached herd immunity.

1. I don’t believe your first point is correct.

2. I believe point 2 is correct, including death.

3. Face masks don’t do squat.  Texas and Florida say hi.

I am fully vaccinated and on a packed plane from Texas to Colorado at present.

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3 hours ago, BEVOSREVENGE said:

1. I don’t believe your first point is correct.

2. I believe point 2 is correct, including death.

3. Face masks don’t do squat.  Texas and Florida say hi.

I am fully vaccinated and on a packed plane from Texas to Colorado at present.

Belief doesn't really matter, it's a fact that vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus

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1 hour ago, FrancisK7 said:

Belief doesn't really matter, it's a fact that vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus

Exactly 

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On 5/1/2021 at 1:51 AM, Bijan said:

 most people don't get poked with needles for fun.

 

ifindkarma. be kind, and so can you. — Usually you pay double for that kind  of action,...

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On 4/30/2021 at 5:01 PM, FrancisK7 said:

Belief doesn't really matter, it's a fact that vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus

Hadn't seen where that's been deemed a fact.  Source?  

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1 hour ago, rcarlson said:

Hadn't seen where that's been deemed a fact.  Source?  

Quote
  • The risks of SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others. However, the benefits of relaxing some measures such as testing and self-quarantine requirements for travelers, post-exposure quarantine requirements and reducing social isolation may outweigh the residual risk of fully vaccinated people becoming ill with COVID-19 or transmitting the virus to others.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

There have been anecdotal reports of vaccinated people catching the virus more than 2 weeks after their first dose, and of people having COVID, beating it, then catching it again, but there's not enough scientific data to conclude the safety level of transmission after vaccination. 

Masks are here to stay for some time I think. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Philc2001 said:

It's intriguing how this topic has become such a politically divisive issue. I wonder if that sort of resistance existed in the 1300s when the Black Death was wiping out 1/3 of the human species (estimated 75 million to 200 million people died). If it were not for technological advancements, COVID and many other plagues throughout history would have decimated the world population

COVID isnt nearly as lethal as any of the plagues. It's pretty much the flu except we have no resistance and we didnt have vaccines ready. As for why this is politically divisive, is this disease major enough to warrant what are pretty extreme and unprecedented measures? Perhaps it is, perhaps it's not. With a mortality rate of 2%, which doesnt actually represent the average person's chance of death, that's quite a bit lower than the plague wiping out over half of Europe's population. The average person if they're healthy has only a fraction of a percent chance of dying, really the group which needs to be protected are the elderly, who make the disease appear to be statistically far more lethal than it actually is.

Compare this to the spanish flu, which targeted young adults in their prime, I dont think this outbreak is nearly as bad, yet our reaction to it has been much stronger.

My question is why we couldnt quarantine just the elderly who were most at risk and legitimately need to be protected from this virus, while allowing healthy young and middle aged adults to continue on as is. This way our economies wouldnt be crippled. 

This isnt to say that the economy is more important than people's lives, but people's livelihoods have been ruined not even by the virus, but by the overreaction of our leaders. I doubt it was an easy choice, but still, I dont think we need to grind our society to a halt for every new bug that comes out

 

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2 hours ago, FrancisK7 said:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

There have been anecdotal reports of vaccinated people catching the virus more than 2 weeks after their first dose, and of people having COVID, beating it, then catching it again, but there's not enough scientific data to conclude the safety level of transmission after vaccination. 

Masks are here to stay for some time I think. 

 

 

As you said, belief doesn't count.  So much that has been surmised (such as this), has frequently proved to be dead wrong.  Yet the scorn from certain segments remains constant.  It's not only losing its potency, it's creating the type of apathy and resentment from the masses that will have the opposite effect of what's intended by it.  Human nature.  And that's why I think absent something more compelling, masks are on their way out, at least in the U.S.  Hell, they already are in many areas like mine.       

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Measures like masks only work if a majority of people have a social conscience and are capable of empathy, so YMMV.

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2 minutes ago, FrancisK7 said:

Measures like masks only work if a majority of people have a social conscience and are capable of empathy, so YMMV.

Funny thing, many that oppose mask mandates say the exact same thing.  Perhaps that's the the larger problem.      

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5 minutes ago, FrancisK7 said:

Measures like masks only work if a majority of people have a social conscience and are capable of empathy

I find the whole discussion mildly irritating--I judge people by the entirety of their actions, day after day.  Do they keep their word?   Do they treat people with respect?  etc etc

I have found no correlation between either good or bad people and mask wearing.

I just follow the old "when in Rome do as the Romans do" rule.   It is getting more difficult since some of the Romans are wearing masks and some are not.....

😉

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9 minutes ago, FrancisK7 said:

Measures like masks only work if a majority of people have a social conscience and are capable of empathy, so YMMV.

And the ad hominem attacks begin.

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3 hours ago, FrancisK7 said:

Measures like masks only work if a majority of people have a social conscience and are capable of empathy, so YMMV.

It is confusing and frustrating that some folks will make a stand and throw a fit in public against mask wearing in a crowded airplane, yet they abide by the seatbelt rule. 

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Seeing the responses here makes me happy to be a healthcare provider.

Some of yall are going to be making me rich. I need to build a cave humidor and stock it. My latest acquisition is nearly full.

Next week the town nearest me is having a huge biker rally for 5 days. The business owners sponsoring it feel just awful for the other businesses which have suffered. Not for the all of deaths we've had in their tiny blip on the map, nor for the numerous costly hospital treatments and extended stays. I'm excited. There was a lull.

Thank you all. Thank you. 

 

Edit: I'm so glad to live out in the middle of a desert. 

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5 hours ago, Thatsze said:

COVID isnt nearly as lethal as any of the plagues. It's pretty much the flu except we have no resistance and we didnt have vaccines ready. As for why this is politically divisive, is this disease major enough to warrant what are pretty extreme and unprecedented measures? Perhaps it is, perhaps it's not. With a mortality rate of 2%, which doesnt actually represent the average person's chance of death, that's quite a bit lower than the plague wiping out over half of Europe's population. The average person if they're healthy has only a fraction of a percent chance of dying, really the group which needs to be protected are the elderly, who make the disease appear to be statistically far more lethal than it actually is.

It is not like a flu, and it is not limited to the elderly. It's actually surprising to hear that analogy still, considering what we have learned over the past year. You may be underestimating its lethality, and we are still learning about the long-term health implications of people who were infected but haven't died from it.

Although fewer people have died from COVID than in major historic plagues (at least so far) I believe that is largely because of our coordinated global reaction to it, as well as the immense healthcare heroics that saved millions of people from dying.  Look at what is currently happening in India, over 400K new infections daily (which is grossly undercounted), crematoriums running 24/7, people dying in the streets waiting to be admitted and hospitals completely overwhelmed, out of PPE, oxygen and other supplies. That could easily be happening across the entire world.

Consider how many more millions would have died if hospitals didn't intubate and use oxygen, or if social distancing and other precautions had not been implemented. The pandemic would be ravaging every continent, worse than the 1918 epidemic given how widespread COVID is geographically across the planet. Had it broken out 100 or 200 years ago, it would be far more lethal.

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10 hours ago, FrancisK7 said:

There have been anecdotal reports of vaccinated people catching the virus more than 2 weeks after their first dose


anecdotal: 
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
"while there was much anecdotal evidence there was little hard fact"
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https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
There have been anecdotal reports of vaccinated people catching the virus more than 2 weeks after their first dose, and of people having COVID, beating it, then catching it again, but there's not enough scientific data to conclude the safety level of transmission after vaccination. 
Masks are here to stay for some time I think. 
 
 
This doesn't mean vaccinated people still spread the virus, “Breakthrough” cases of COVID-19 among vaccinated people are expected.

It doesn't mean that the vaccines currently in use are not highly effective.

They are, just not 100 percent effective.

So, yes, you can still get sick even if you’re vaccinated, but it’s exceedingly rare.
According to the CDC, 87 Million Americans had received the COVID-19 vaccine as of April 20, 2021. Among vaccinated people, there were 7,157 breakthrough cases, with fewer than 500 hospitalizations and 88 deaths.

The cases are about 1/100th of 1 percent of those vaccinated.




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9 hours ago, mprach024 said:

anecdotal: 
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
"while there was much anecdotal evidence there was little hard fact"

They're confirmed infected cases, it's just not enough data to meet the standards of the scientific method and definitely rule vaccines completely or significantly stop the spread of the virus. It's anecdotal until confirmed with the proper studies.

The ongoing studies are actually showing a much smaller viral charge in people who got vaccinated and still got infected, which helps reduce transmission. So it's good news.

But masks will continue to be mandated until herd immunity is reached (which for COVID is 80% of the population getting their two shots) and seeing people scream their liberties or freedom are infringed upon by masks just makes me cringe. 

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Well said, @mprach024. I would also add that while the economic impact of shutdowns has been massive, it will end up paling in comparison to the long term recession/depression brought on by the financial crisis of ‘08/09. We’re already seeing a tightening labor market, GDP and earnings growth, and wage inflation. The economic impact of a prolonged pandemic with more casualties, more highly infectious variants, and an incapacitated healthcare system would have been much worse.

In hindsight, more strict quarantine and lockdown restrictions earlier on would have helped stop community spread in the US and allowed the economy to fully open sooner. Avoiding restrictions in the name of short term economic impact is penny wise and pound foolish.

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