Lingerers...

[El Presidente]

The subject came up last night at our weekely BR meeting. 

 

Remember the days when LE's and Regionals would hang around for a couple of years?

I was mentioning to the lads that I am pretty sure the Upmann Magnum 48 LE hung around for three years in good numbers.  I think the last LE that hung around a full calender year was the Cohiba Robusto Supremos EL 2014. 

It is a little harder to gauge the regionals as production for a given nominated year can spread over two + years. The increasingly common release in 10's also stretches the reach.

Your recollection of releases that hung around for a few years?    

[JohnS]

Of recent times? Would you say the 2018 Romeo y Julieta Tacos were around a little longer than the other Limited Edition releases before and after it?

[NSXCIGAR]

I'm not sure what you mean by hanging around. If you mean what comes from PCC directly to you, you're probably right. But I've seen ELs in particular hang around forever on the gray market with minimal price premiums. Off the top of my head recently: Monte Dantes, RyJ Tacos, Punch RdP--all easily found if one looks for maybe 10-15% more than when new. 

From what I can tell, if an EL is a non-global brand and/or received anything less than stellar reviews it likely will hang around for many years at relatively low prices. Still readily available today are RyJ De Luxe, Hoyo Grand Epicure, Partagas Serie No. 1 and also many from the late 2000s that really didn't impress anyone like the dreaded Trini SRT, Ingenios, Boli PB, Cuaba Piramides, RyJ Dukes, RyJ Escudos. Hoyo SP.

ERs are another story entirely. I don't put them in the same category as ELs at all. Availability of those is really case by case. Some are cold, some are hot. LFDC Grandiosos has been readily available for over 7 years while LGC Orgullosos were available for about a month. 

[El Presidente]

6 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm not sure what you mean by hanging around.

true it is a bit loose.

Let's define it as two years + at multiple retailers (including B&M). 

[El Presidente]

You are right, R&J De Luxe and LFDC Grandiosos are two standout "lingerers". 

The rest you would be hard pressed to find on shelves around the world today. Online/greys certainly. 

[CaptainQuintero]

Trinidad Short Robustos seemed to hang around like a bad smell for years and years. I can't remember ever reading anyone smoking one never mind buying. Weren't they same price as Siglo 6 or something daft? 

  PL Robustos Asia Pacifico RE hung around for 4+ years 5? But they had big production numbers, or was it two runs? The PL piramides Asia P RE that came along after seemed to be around for a long time too

[El Presidente]

Just now, CaptainQuintero said:

Trinidad Short Robustos seemed to hang around like a bad smell for years and years. I can't remember ever reading anyone smoking one never mind buying. Weren't they same price as Siglo 6 or something daft? 

  PL Robustos Asia Pacifico RE hung around for 4+ years 5? But they had big production numbers, or was it two runs? The PL piramides Asia P RE that came along after seemed to be around for a long time too

TSR was a straight dog. 

PL Robusto and PL BE were produced over a two year period but both hung around for 3-4 years.  The PL Robusto went onto being a cracking cigar. 

[La_Tigre]

50 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Of recent times? Would you say the 2018 Romeo y Julieta Tacos were around a little longer than the other Limited Edition releases before and after it?

+1

Likely due to their flame retardant wrappers....? 🧯 

[El Presidente]

55 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Of recent times? Would you say the 2018 Romeo y Julieta Tacos were around a little longer than the other Limited Edition releases before and after it?

Generally, R&J struggles in the EL realm.  

[Justins123]

Oh yes.  Some stuck around FOREVER. I’m looking at a particular vendor’s list from June 2013 with RyJ Hermoso No. 2 on it. 

[CaptainQuintero]

2 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

TSR was a straight dog. 

PL Robusto and PL BE were produced over a two year period but both hung around for 3-4 years.  The PL Robusto went onto being a cracking cigar. 

 It's getting on a while now but I think I remember there being an adjustment in production numbers after those first Asia Pacific REs around 2011 ish? From 6-7k down to 2-4k?

  I'm guessing it wasn't down to them being bad cigars, if anything I think Asia Pacific have had more great releases than other regions. Dip Bushido, PL Robustos, Encantos, Punch Sabrosos jump immediately to mind. Plus they all did sell eventually, even the Short Bolivars and the Juan Lopez #4, So more of a reluctance on Pacific Cigar Ltd to have funds tied up in stock sat on shelves too long rather than poor performances?

  I don't really remember AP REs hanging around long at all after that. 

[leebert]

11 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Generally, R&J struggles in the EL realm.  

While there are exceptions (you've listed a few), I think you could modify your statement to "Generally, __pick_a_marca____ struggles in the EL realm." I'd venture the lingering is partly due to the uncertainty in what you're getting, AND that they seem to take a long time to find their stride (if they ever do). I'm still holding hope for the Boli Petite Bellico (2009?), but it's already been over a decade... opportunity cost is quite high... so, they linger?

Eh, reaching with this...

[FlyingGlass]

Don’t mean to throw this off angle here, but a slightly different perspective. I have the distinction of being like the relative that shows up at the house after not seeing the kids for a decade and going on and on about how much they’ve changed.

It’s with that perspective that I see just how significant these changes are to EL popularity in some cases.

They didn’t stick around for long as far as I’m aware, but the mere fact I was able to pick up my first, and only ELs as a partial right here ... Six Cohiba Siglo VI Gran Reserva ... with not a lot of rushing to be first in line or paying X times list price is astounding to me. Of course, some of the ELs fly off the shelf and some don’t, but generally speaking I’m seeing the kids for the first time in a long time and amazed at the changes.

Really enjoy the insights you all have of which have lingered on the shelves and why, be it undervalued or overhyped. If nothing else, it gives me some appreciation for not taking the EL or ER label as a given but also for being able to access so many fantastic cigars, including the regular production that we all enjoy and the occasional treat of those ELs or ERs that are really special.

 

 

[Islandboy]

ERDM Tainos and Punch 898’s seem to be lingering quite well...or perhaps this is more a case of simply being slowly released. Availability has gone on for much longer than I expected - turns out I didn’t need to sell a kidney to hoard all those boxes at the get-go after all.

[TheGipper]

I think this is the shelf-sitting, dust-collecting world champion of all time.

[Chucko8]

Surprised no-one utter the Talisman as yet. Or do we just consider that to be regular production! 🤣

[LordAnubis]

The propios is still hanging around isnt it ? Can be sourced reasonably easily from what i can see? Suppose it only hit the market in 2019 or so.

[Edicion]

I'm not sure if they should be included but the R&J Churchill Anejados can still be found anywhere and although I cannot see what is in the future nor do claim to know what will happen, I predict the R&J Maravillas won't fly off the shelves anytime soon either. 

[Hammer Smokin']

1 hour ago, Islandboy said:

ERDM Tainos and Punch 898’s seem to be lingering quite well...or perhaps this is more a case of simply being slowly released. Availability has gone on for much longer than I expected - turns out I didn’t need to sell a kidney to hoard all those boxes at the get-go after all.

that is very true, especially the Punch 898. 

They have been up so many times since they have been released. 

appears they are 'lingering' or there is just a crap ton of stock!

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Islandboy said:

ERDM Tainos and Punch 898’s seem to be lingering quite well...or perhaps this is more a case of simply being slowly released.

Slow release. Lots of boxes. Sir David also popped up earlier this year. 

2 hours ago, TheGipper said:

I think this is the shelf-sitting, dust-collecting world champion of all time.

They had been, but I think the last few years they're becoming scarce. The Short Robusto T is another story. Straight dog indeed.

[Onsto]

I bought HdM Regalos from our host as late as 2012/13. It was a 2007 release. I liked them but most people didn’t. 

[KavalanWhisky]

2 hours ago, Chucko8 said:

Surprised no-one utter the Talisman as yet. Or do we just consider that to be regular production! 🤣

You've not heard of the regular production limited edition....if it isn't a numbered run they can release as many as they like....similar to Tudor and the Limited Harrods BB58....

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

The propios is still hanging around isnt it ? Can be sourced reasonably easily from what i can see? Suppose it only hit the market in 2019 or so.

Hit very late in 19. I'm still seeing mid-20 production. Still tricking in and seeing them at quite reasonable prices. 

9 hours ago, Chucko8 said:

Surprised no-one utter the Talisman as yet. Or do we just consider that to be regular production! 🤣

If we see any 21 production I'm calling it. De facto regular production. 

7 hours ago, Onsto said:

I bought HdM Regalos from our host as late as 2012/13. It was a 2007 release. I liked them but most people didn’t. 

I've always thought the Regalos were excellent. In fact, I thought it might have been one of the best EL releases to that point (07). The issue is that a large portion of them had fireproof wrappers and got a lot of bad PR, so they hung around for a long time. 

[frenchkiwi]

On 4/30/2021 at 9:07 AM, El Presidente said:

 

I was mentioning to the lads that I am pretty sure the Upmann Magnum 48 LE hung around for three years in good numbers. 

I bought a box of Mag48 ELs, maybe off you Rob, that was about 3-4 years old and it was a cracker, lots of sweet cocoa. 

So i bought another one a year later, still good but around 6 years of age they lost their vigour. 

 

I think the Bolivar Gold Medals hung around for a few years... great young, tasted of tinned peaches from memory !,  but lost everything within 3 years