Are cigars out of cabinets of 50 better?


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50 count cabs are going the way of the dinosaur, so enjoy the few that are still produced. For myself I have no preference to packaging. A good cigar is a good cigar. I don't care whether it comes from a 50 cab, 25 cab, 25 SBN or 25 dress box. 

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31 minutes ago, Enduin said:

Not gonna give you hate, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Some things are pseudoscience (plume is a good example), others are not.

Regarding Rob's grading, the way I understand it there is no guarantee that the cigars are going to smoke well as in perfect draw and combustion, but that's just half of the equation. The other half is whether or not better quality tobacco has been used to roll those specific cigars. That can absolutely be judged by an expert like Rob by looking at the appearance of the cigars and evaluating the smell and feel of the cigar. So by getting Rob's higher grade stuff you at least know that chances are (even he is not infallible of course) that the cigars are made with quality tobacco and without MAJOR construction flaws. They can still be plugged or have other not-so-obvious construction flaws but you are reducing your risk. 

Also the "they are all tobacco leaves" statement is demonstrably wrong. The flavor that we get from tobacco comes from the chemicals that were in the leaves when they were harvested. It's a well known fact that the chemicals in tobacco (or other plants) can change pretty dramatically due to temperature, water, sun exposure, chemicals in the soil, and a myriad of other factors, and it has been proven with GC/MS lab analysis. This is without even considering the curing process, which can be done more or less skillfully and it will also affect the flavor of the final product. You ask about the logic for which one leaf would give a stronger flavor than others? If it's at the top of the plant it will get more sun and it will develop more chemicals that will result in more flavor (coeteris paribus) than a leaf grown at the base of the plant where it's always in the shade. If one leaf comes from a year where the weather was better for the tobacco, or the soil had more nutrients, it will likely have more and better flavor than a leaf grown in a crappy year. The list goes on.  

I mean if everything were just placebo, then all red wines made anywhere from any vintage ever would all taste the same because they are all made with fermented grapes, all cheese would taste the same because they are all made of milk, and so on. It's pretty obvious that that is not the case. 

Back to the 50 cab topic, I can totally see an impact from not having the box press and hence possibly having a better draw, so that could make them "better". For the rest like with aging, I feel like the connection is a lot more farfetched but you never know. I'm a strong believer of the old saying: the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 

That's fine -- Just to clarify a few points:

 

"they are all tobacco leaves" what I meant by this, is that the binder/filler/wrapper, they are all leaves -- there is no evidence to suggest that a wrapper gives off more flavor (the age-old myth that the wrapper gives x% of flavor in the cigar). Each leaf contributes. Obviously some more than others, depending on the blend, but nowhere near the amount people tend to think. 

 

As for Rob's grading, I mean how can you objectively even say that? The feel of the cigar, what does that even mean? Can you prove that there is a relationship between x prelight armoa equals y smoking experience? There's absolutely no tangible evidence or studies I'm aware of that suggests this. The only thing you may be able to conclude with a cigar pre-light, is going to be the construction: does the foot of the cigar look overpacked, do you feel any obvious knots etc. And even then, there's no science to it; I've had plenty of sticks that felt and looked extremely overpacked & i grab my perfec-draw before I even cut, and then once I give it a pre-light draw it happens to draw perfectly.

Just some food for thought. 

Disclaimer: I mean no disrespect, It's a good shop and I give FoH business, but the grading is just marketing in my eyes. And it's great marketing. And I still plan to purchase from here.

 

 

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No question 50 cabs are better than a dress box. Tobacco on tobacco, always beats tobacco on glossy paper. As to 50 cab vs. 25 SLB, I would go 50 cab every day of the week and twice on Sunday, as you will likely get cigars that are more uniform in taste and construction. 

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14 minutes ago, justince said:

That's fine -- Just to clarify a few points:

 

"they are all tobacco leaves" what I meant by this, is that the binder/filler/wrapper, they are all leaves -- there is no evidence to suggest that a wrapper gives off more flavor (the age-old myth that the wrapper gives x% of flavor in the cigar). Each leaf contributes. Obviously some more than others, depending on the blend, but nowhere near the amount people tend to think. 

 

As for Rob's grading, I mean how can you objectively even say that? The feel of the cigar, what does that even mean? Can you prove that there is a relationship between x prelight armoa equals y smoking experience? There's absolutely no tangible evidence or studies I'm aware of that suggests this. The only thing you may be able to conclude with a cigar pre-light, is going to be the construction: does the foot of the cigar look overpacked, do you feel any obvious knots etc. And even then, there's no science to it; I've had plenty of sticks that felt and looked extremely overpacked & i grab my perfec-draw before I even cut, and then once I give it a pre-light draw it happens to draw perfectly.

Just some food for thought. 

Disclaimer: I mean no disrespect, It's a good shop and I give FoH business, but the grading is just marketing in my eyes. And it's great marketing. And I still plan to purchase from here.

 

 

If you believe the notion that some left contributes more flavor than others, then I'm not sure why you do not believe that the wrapper can contribute more flavor than at least say seco or volado, which do make up most of the filler. I think a more accurate statement is that the wrapper does indeed noticeably contribute to the flavor especially in smaller RG cigars. 

What does the "feel" mean? You can first of all evaluate the presence or lack thereof of soft spots or "knots", so you can write off some of the more obvious construction flaws. That's not all, by touching a cigar you can get an idea of how oily/dry and how thin/thick a wrapper is, which for us who do believe that a good wrapper matters, is useful information about the quality fo the leaf. 

Also, no disrespect to you as well, but you are really far off regarding the aroma. If a tobacco leaf contains more aromatic chemicals it WILL give off a more noticeable smell. If it contains more aromatic chemicals it WILL taste better/stronger. It's that simple. There is absolutely tangible evidence of this with various plants and botanicals and I have seen it in person. I worked with distilleries and personally chose the botanicals that went into the recipes. I also sent samples to a lab to analyze the essential oil and chemical content of botanicals from different sources. The best stuff with the highest essential oil content was also the stuff with the best/more powerful aroma when smelled. 

This is obviously not a perfect science: some chemicals are more volatile than others, so some will show up in the aroma, some won't. There are no absolutes, but if I have to choose between two cigars (with everything else the same) I will pick the one with the best aroma, because most of the time it will be the better tasting one. You are obviously entitled to your opinion but I don't believe you can say that evaluating cigars for feel and aroma has no logical/scientific basis, because it does. 

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3 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

If they are doing 20,000 RASS and 15000 are for dress and 5000 for cabs, you can bet your bottom dollar that the best (subject to colour sorting)  go to the cabs. 

 

have you been able to do a comparison between dress & 50cabs with the exact same factory code? or do they usually come from different factories?

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9 minutes ago, Meklown said:

have you been able to do a comparison between dress & 50cabs with the exact same factory code? or do they usually come from different factories?

I am referring to same factory production. Quota run (produced at the same time). 

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7 hours ago, havanaclub said:


But there is a solution... buy another humidor lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Verily. I just got a huge fancy humidor earlier this year and now either need to smoke half of it or buy another. For the price I could probably just build a cigar cave underground. 

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The answer is no.  To further blow your mind, you could have 50 cigars in a cabinet rolled by 50 different people.....could have a 3-pack of tubos rolled by 3 different people.....no way to even compare this realistically

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9 minutes ago, Silverstix said:

The answer is no.  To further blow your mind, you could have 50 cigars in a cabinet rolled by 50 different people.....could have a 3-pack of tubos rolled by 3 different people.....no way to even compare this realistically

This only addresses what goes into the cab at the time of packing and ignores any potential effects thereafter.

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1 hour ago, Ginseng said:

This only addresses what goes into the cab at the time of packing and ignores any potential effects thereafter.

Exactly my point.  A garbage cigar is going to remain a garbage cigar no matter what kind of box you put it in or how many cigars are in there with it.

...and realistically, how can one even begin to draw comparisons between 2 handmade products that are potentially assembled by 2 different people not using the same exact formula?  

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1 hour ago, Silverstix said:

Exactly my point.  A garbage cigar is going to remain a garbage cigar no matter what kind of box you put it in or how many cigars are in there with it.

...and realistically, how can one even begin to draw comparisons between 2 handmade products that are potentially assembled by 2 different people not using the same exact formula?  

Or, 50 cigars in a wooden box and all 50 are rolled by a different torcedor? Cigars are sorted by wrapper color. There are so few cigars available today in 50 cabs, that unless all your favorites happen to be packaged this way then there really is no advantage. RASS is one of my go to cigars, but all my purchases have been 25 dress boxes. When a few 50 cabs go up for sale, it is like throwing chum to the sharks. Not worth my stress to try and fight for one. 

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I generally only have room for a couple of 50 cabs in cabinet.  Vacuum sealed in the cellar is a different story.  If see a great 50 cab of Hoyo DC's, I'd like to buy it.  Will vacuum seal it and see what's up next decade.

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I dont think they are better or worse, just different. its like the store in tubes or out of tubes debate. I think cabs, and tubes, mature over a longer period of time. A tube or cab cigar will be more flavourful after 10 years than its counterpart in a dress box. Whether you liek this or not is a matter of preference. I personally prefer my cigars milder at 7 years, and tubes and cabs dont achieve that to the extent dress boxes do in my opinion. 

To express this graphcally in my highly scietific representation, i think it looks something like this to my preferences.

image.png.4711359c1ef8fa2d4084219c50ada91d.png

Personally though, i prefer to smoke 2 petite coronas in one sitting than 1 churchill. If you're similarly inclined to me i'd rather get 2 dress boxes of partagas shorts than one 50 cab. I'd rather a BBF dress box to a BBF cab. I don't plan on smoking my cigars after 10 years, i plan to smoke them within 7 so dress boxes suit my requirements. If you want to hold onto cigars for 10 years plus then i'd probably go for a Cab myself.

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I prefer 50 cabs and SLB’s but if a dress box is the only option I’ll happily take that. 
Multiple 50 cabs are great for easy aging. 

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On 5/24/2021 at 4:38 PM, mprach024 said:

I always put it on the bottom.  Don’t know why, just always preferred the bottom row on cedar vs paper

I do the same thing.  If mold is going to start anywhere my mind tells me its from the paper staying to humid or moist.  I put the cedar on the bottom of the dress box and let the cigars get to know each other.  If I have some left over cedar dividers lying around I might even put two in the same box and separate the cigars again. I line my coolidor with as many as these cedar dividers as I can.

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One thing to consider is cigars in cabs don't end up with a soft box press like many sticks from dress boxes do.

I could definitely see that influencing the construction a bit, which maybe causes a perceived increase in quality.

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