Does Halfwheel ever have anything nice to say about CCs

[Kevin48438]

33 minutes ago, miamipadronsmoker said:

https://halfwheel.com/dunhill-cabinetta-1984-vintage-smoke-review/9832/
 

Sorry I exaggerated it was 97.

This thread is going in many directions, but anyway, why do you think the cigar was fake?

[Chibearsv]

Wow this thread seems to have hit a nerve with a lot of folks.  It seems to me that all of the reviewers that are posting here are sincere about how they approach their reviews (whether we agree with them or not). I don't really care if a reviewer doesn't like a cigar as much as I do.  I'm not sure why anyone else cares that much either (unless they're selling cigars).   Personally, I wish every public reviewer out there would post that Esplendidos and Sir Winstons smoked like turds 😉 

[Cigar Surgeon]

8 hours ago, Bijan said:

To me it's not a personal insult or attack. It is well established on this forum that if you post reviews or videos online whether professionally or semi-professionally then you open yourself up to criticism, sometimes harsh. That comes with the territory. It's not an ad hominem to say that half wheel reviewers have poor palates when it comes to CCs (or even all cigars) if that's what you conclude from reading their reviews. It might be completely wrong but it's a legitimate opinion to express.

Well it's not my forum and I'm not a moderator but saying someone doesn't have a palate is a personal attack, regardless of whether it's under the umbrella of 'critiquing' an online media member. Especially if those online media members are members of this forum.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the conversation, I'm really enjoying the discussion so far. 

 

7 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Wow this thread seems to have hit a nerve with a lot of folks.  It seems to me that all of the reviewers that are posting here are sincere about how they approach their reviews (whether we agree with them or not). I don't really care if a reviewer doesn't like a cigar as much as I do.  I'm not sure why anyone else cares that much either (unless they're selling cigars).   Personally, I wish every public reviewer out there would post that Esplendidos and Sir Winstons smoked like turds 😉 

Smoked my festival Partagas Lusi last night and it was boring as hell compared to my box. I would have rated it a low 5 based on the fact it was almost plugged and was completely monotone the entire way through.

The box I have is spectacular. 

[Bijan]

7 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

Well it's not my forum and I'm not a moderator but saying someone doesn't have a palate is a personal attack, regardless of whether it's under the umbrella of 'critiquing' an online media member. Especially if those online media members are members of this forum.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the conversation, I'm really enjoying the discussion so far. 

We've had much worse personal attacks against reviewers. Most recently on a British father and son duo of cigar reviewers who post videos on youtube. The original post on FOH was along lines of do non-British people find these guys to be as flipping annoying and stupid wankers as I do. And that was taken to be acceptable since they were putting themselves out there online.

Again the question to me as to is it legitimate to criticize the person is it relevant? If I make an argument that doesn't depend on me personally then a personal attack is an ad hominem. If I make an argument that depends on me then it isn't. For example if I apply to a job I can have my skills questioned. If I review cigars I can have my palate questioned.

You raise a good point about when the person is a member of the forum, maybe in that case keep it more polite, but the same logic applies to me.

 

8 hours ago, Kevin48438 said:

This thread is going in many directions, but anyway, why do you think the cigar was fake?

This was posted as a comment to the review:

"I’ve send you a email with some observations about the Dunhill Cabinetta you reviewed; havn’t received a replay, never mind.
Let me sum up:
The wrapper color is a perfect colorado: vintage cigars usually don’t keep that kind of bright color for such a long time. The cigar head is not prefectly made, and that’s not typical for a vintage Dunhill. Furthermore, the wrapper has too many veins.
After more than 20 years, the band color (red and gold) couldn’t be so vivid as in the picture. Also, the band edges seems to be too sharp, while just some humidity degrees can slightly warp the edges as time goes by. The band doesn’t look genuine.
May I ask you where does that cigar come from? Maybe this information could reassure all of us about the authenticity of that wonderful and very rare cigar."

Edit: Just putting this out there, this is not my opinion.

[Kevin48438]

As a participant in some of that particular thread deviation, I will offer this:  To characterize being respectful and friendly toward the HW guys as a “fiasco,” I thought was out of bounds.

fi·as·co

/fēˈaskō/

 

noun

1. a thing that is a complete failure, especially in a ludicrous or humiliating way.

   "his plans turned into a fiasco"

It’s also an example of how writing on a forum doesn’t provide good context on such things without body language and the like.   But I interpreted it kind of like this:

Imagine the previous participants NSXCIGAR, HW guys (who I invited), Cigar Surgeon, myself, etc were sitting in a lounge.   Having a cordial discussion that was the content of this thread.   Then a stranger walks by and essentially says, “those guys (pointing at Charlie and Brooks) are morons. You guys are humiliating yourselves talking to them about cigars.”

My response was along the lines of, “if you want to join and be respectful, you will be heard.”  Then I chastised him for being childish.  Then I essentially scowled and said “if there is a problem with my guests, you can speak to me, otherwise keep walking.”  A little too aggressive?  Maybe.  But I’ve found that helps squash rudeness and keep things on track.

I would also like to say I hold no grudges and a lot of things can be chalked up to the imperfect nature of conversing on a forum.   Maybe Carrie Nation was laughing as he said it and it was friendlier than I interpreted.  🤷🏻‍♂️  He is definitely invited to sit and share with all of the BOTLs in that spirit.

 

7 hours ago, Bijan said:

This was posted as a comment to the review:

"I’ve send you a email with some observations about the Dunhill Cabinetta you reviewed; havn’t received a replay, never mind.
Let me sum up:
The wrapper color is a perfect colorado: vintage cigars usually don’t keep that kind of bright color for such a long time. The cigar head is not prefectly made, and that’s not typical for a vintage Dunhill. Furthermore, the wrapper has too many veins.
After more than 20 years, the band color (red and gold) couldn’t be so vivid as in the picture. Also, the band edges seems to be too sharp, while just some humidity degrees can slightly warp the edges as time goes by. The band doesn’t look genuine.
May I ask you where does that cigar come from? Maybe this information could reassure all of us about the authenticity of that wonderful and very rare cigar."

Edit: Just putting this out there, this is not my opinion.

To be clear, that was a comment on the review posted on the HW site, correct?

[Bijan]

7 hours ago, Kevin48438 said:

To be clear, that was a comment on the review posted on the HW site, correct?

Correct.

 

7 hours ago, Kevin48438 said:

As a participant in some of that particular thread deviation, I will offer this:  To characterize being respectful and friendly toward the HW guys as a “fiasco,” I thought was out of bounds.

I took it possibly differently. I could be entirely wrong, but I thought he was referring to the thread as a fiasco. Since everyone was being polite to the HW folks who were present. That being his sentiment.

Again in my experience talking to people on this forum online and offline, people don't hate halfwheel but they do question their relevance for CCs, consistently. Except for @NSXCIGAR and his review of the numerical data, that sentiment was nowhere to be found in this thread.

Edit: I guess except for the OP that started the thread.

[Kevin48438]

3 minutes ago, Bijan said:

I took it possibly differently. I could be entirely wrong, but I thought he was referring to the thread as a fiasco. Since everyone was being polite to the HW folks who were present. That being his sentiment.

Again in my experience talking to people on this forum online and offline, people don't hate halfwheel but they do question their relevance for CCs, consistently. Except for @NSXCIGAR and his review of the numerical data, that sentiment was nowhere to be found in this thread.

That seems the the same to me.  Thread = conversation in lounge.  And if a sentiment is, “you guys shouldn’t be polite” well.....

Questioning HW’s relevance is completely legitimate.  Except for some natural deviations in a thread this long, I think the thread is moving toward answering the titled question:  “Does Halfwheel ever have anything nice to say about CCs”.  NSXCIGAR is providing data to show trends relating to such a broad question.   Others and myself are attempting to offer potential reasons for the disparity.

Other related questions like the utility and value of review scores (in general or per specific reviewers) has been and should be, imo, a different thread.  It’s an interesting topic itself.   Another one with no right or wrong answers, which probably is more fun.

Debating a review or the best review standards is another potential thread.  Again with no right or wrong answers.   People here are all over the place in how they review.  Nothing wring with that.  Just as with professional reviewers, it’s up to the reader to decide how they want to use the information.

[BrooksW]

FWIW, I don't think anyone on the hw staff takes criticism about something in a review personally (I know I don't.) I have no issues with someone saying they don't taste/note what I do, or that they have smoked 50 boxes of the same cigar and had no problems like I did.

Cigars are hand-made products, and each person is going to experience each cigar differently, so who am I to judge or say what they did or did not taste/feel/experience?

And perhaps more to the point, how can we expect to be taken seriously as people who make at least part of their living criticizing creations other people make, if we can't take criticism of what we "make", (i.e. reviews)?

My main issues come when someone has comments about personal things, which go well beyond those boundaries, although they are thankfully rare. Someone calling us ignorant about Cuban tobacco/cigars is incorrect for a number of reasons (that I detailed earlier) but anyone certainly has a right to write it about us if they choose, IMHO.

[Bijan]

7 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

That seems the the same to me.  Thread = conversation in lounge.  And if a sentiment is, “you guys shouldn’t be polite” well.....

Questioning HW’s relevance is completely legitimate.  Except for some natural deviations in a thread this long, I think the thread is moving toward answering the titled question:  “Does Halfwheel ever have anything nice to say about CCs”.  NSXCIGAR is providing data to show trends relating to such a broad question.   Others and myself are attempting to offer potential reasons for the disparity.

I think that threads often provide utility beyond the narrow question the OP asks. If we wanted to be that narrow (does HW ever have anything nice to say about CCs literally), someone could have posted some 97 point review of a CC from HW and say here they said a nice thing about a CC, case closed.

In this case I expected all the casual critics of HW to come out of the woodwork and critique the CC reviews they found questionable or bring up those issues. And they would get addressed by the HW folks, either as read our CC reviews with this in mind, or maybe we should make such and such a change in our CC handling to make the reviews more relevant to the people who smoke those cigars.

Anyways I've contributed about as much as I can meaningfully to this conversation given my almost non-existent experience with NC cigars. (probably talked a lot more than I should have in some cases)

[Carrie Nation]

Even among the most die-hard NC smokers, non-Cuban Cohibas are considered a joke, so Bijan and everyone here are fully justified in meeting them with strong skepticism because NC Cohibas have a proven track record of being consistently trash. The only NC Cohibas that are even semi-decent cost $95 and look like stage props from the movie Tron, LOL!!!. And that Cohiba M trying to be a Behike is yet another example of over-priced mediocrity, yet HW appears to love these cigars that even the NC community rejects. It tells you something about the HW palate and how incompatible it is with probably the majority of this forum. 

[Kevin48438]

5 minutes ago, Bijan said:

I think that threads often provide utility beyond the narrow question the OP asks. If we wanted to be that narrow (does HW ever have anything nice to say about CCs literally), someone could have posted some 97 point review of a CC from HW and say here they said a nice thing about a CC, case closed.

In this case I expected all the casual critics of HW to come out of the woodwork and critique the CC reviews they found questionable or bring up those issues. And they would get addressed by the HW folks, either as read our CC reviews with this in mind, or maybe we should make such and such a change in our CC handling to make the reviews more relevant to the people who smoke those cigars.

Anyways I've contributed about as much as I can meaningfully to this conversation given my almost non-existent experience with NC cigars. (probably talked a lot more than I should have in some cases)

Agreed.  I think some of those questions are relevant to the broader question.  But if it drifts too far....

And I’m not sure this is the best place for HW to answer for every debatable review (which is all of them).  That seems like it would be difficult.  But they do have a comment section on their site.

I do find the question of a potentially fake Dunhill interesting.  However I could easily see the answer as, “we burned the evidence.”  As per the source, I could see that as potentially betraying someone’s trust or opening another can of worms.  Imagine if you gifted me that cigar and I posted that fact here.  What would you expect from other cigar seekers?  Now multiply that by 50.  Sometimes the best one can do is leave it alone.  🤷🏻‍♂️

[Çnote]

3 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

do find the question of a potentially fake Dunhill interesting.  However I could easily see the answer as, “we burned the evidence.”  As per the source, I could see that as potentially betraying someone’s trust or opening another can of worms.  Imagine if you gifted me that cigar and I posted that fact here.  What would you expect from other cigar seekers?  Now multiply that by 50.  Sometimes the best one can do is leave it alone.  🤷🏻‍♂️

This is also 10+ years ago and technically pre-halfwheel, so...lots of issues. 

Regarding Cohiba M, I'm personally more likely to spend $30 on something from Titan El Bronze than any CC as a single, if we're just talking $30 cigars. That's also about the price for a CoRo. I'd be shocked if anyone from General wasn't thinking about a post Embargo market.

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, Çnote said:

Regarding Cohiba M, I'm personally more likely to spend $30 on something from Titan El Bronze than any CC as a single, if we're just talking $30 cigars. That's also about the price for a CoRo. I'd be shocked if anyone from General wasn't thinking about a post Embargo market.

Just to address the price, looking at my spreadsheet, my cost on CoRos is around $22, CCE $21, Siglo IV, $21.5, Winnies, $23, CoLa $27, Siglo VI and Esplendidos $35 and $36. Though I don't know if you can easily get near those prices as singles.

I'll be very happy if the Cohiba M smokes as well as those.

[Çnote]

6 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Just to address the price, looking at my spreadsheet, my cost on CoRos is around $22, CCE $21, Siglo IV, $21.5, Winnies, $23, CoLa $27, Siglo VI and Esplendidos $35 and $36. Though I don't know if you can easily get near those prices as singles.

I'll be very happy if the Cohiba M smokes as well as those.

I'll trust your records better than my memory of a recent 2424 of $90 for a 3pk of CoRo; it's also a little academic as General Cohiba and HSA Cohiba will never be on the same shelf.

If you're not familiar with Titan El Bronze, their cigars are always very good, I frankly chase them more than CC. CC usually win on price tho, especially as I have other preferences and criteria.

 

[Cigar Surgeon]

6 hours ago, BrooksW said:

FWIW, I don't think anyone on the hw staff takes criticism about something in a review personally (I know I don't.) I have no issues with someone saying they don't taste/note what I do, or that they have smoked 50 boxes of the same cigar and had no problems like I did.

Listen, I know you all can fight your own fights and you've been in the business a long time and you all have big boy pants on.

But with that said; I'm never comfortable with someone being disrespectful, especially when it isn't warranted. Maybe it's the Canadian in me, I don't know. If someone is being a jackass, and then they get disrespected, they probably had it coming.

But saying someone has a garbage palate, or no experience, or whatever; first of all, those statements are just simply quantifiably false, and second of all do belong in the ad hominem category which there are rules in the forum about.

I think it's fair if someone said: Hey Brooks is biased towards Tatuaje his scoring tends to be higher, let's discuss it. 

Versus: Brooks has no subjectivity, he can't taste anything, he likes Tatuaje that just shows he couldn't possibly taste CCs properly.

I don't even think it's that subtle to be honest. 

 

5 hours ago, Bijan said:

Just to address the price, looking at my spreadsheet, my cost on CoRos is around $22, CCE $21, Siglo IV, $21.5, Winnies, $23, CoLa $27, Siglo VI and Esplendidos $35 and $36. Though I don't know if you can easily get near those prices as singles.

I'll be very happy if the Cohiba M smokes as well as those.

Sure but what CoRo / Siglo IV/ Winnie / CoLa from what factory, from what month? There was a large magazine that posted I believe it was a 93 review of a CoRo with a Feb box code after they reviewed it a month later.

I just read that and just said bullshit at the screen. 

So I think it goes both ways.

[Bijan]

Just now, Cigar Surgeon said:

Sure but what CoRo / Siglo IV/ Winnie / CoLa from what factory, from what month? There was a large magazine that posted I believe it was a 93 review of a CoRo with a Feb box code after they reviewed it a month later.

I just read that and just said bullshit at the screen. 

So I think it goes both ways.

Well Rob and Ken review cigars pretty young, maybe not next month but I think maybe 3-6 months and they are often in the low 90s for sure.

Again I can't comment sensibly without exposing my ignorance of NCs but from the general impression I get from the internet groups, a NC Cohiba super premium US made cigar, is like a Guantanamera Gran Reserva rolled at El Laguito, by the top 1% of rollers and with Medio Tempo leaf. Sounds fine but I'll be suspicious just based on what I've heard of the brand and people's views of it. Maybe smoke it with an open mind if I have the chance, but would I go out of my way to seek it out at basically Siglo VI, Espies, Lancero prices... 

[Cigar Surgeon]

1 minute ago, Bijan said:

Well Rob and Ken review cigars pretty young, maybe not next month but I think maybe 3-6 months and they are often in the low 90s for sure.

Again I can't comment sensibly without exposing my ignorance of NCs but from the general impression I get from the internet groups, a NC Cohiba super premium US made cigar, is like a Guantanamera Gran Reserva rolled at El Laguito, by the top 1% of rollers and with Medio Tempo leaf. Sounds fine but I'll be suspicious just based on what I've heard of the brand and people's views of it. Maybe smoke it with an open mind if I have the chance, but would I go out of my way to seek it out at basically Siglo VI, Espies, Lancero prices... 

Well there's a few things at play specifically with the Cohiba M. For me I think almost no cigar commands a price point over the $16 mark in terms of flavor delivery. It's just not possible most of the time. Price is an entirely different 15 page thread discussion.

Also comparing the Cohiba M to a Guant ... 🤣 ... General Cigar Co. has a warehouse, similar to where the Ark of the Covenant was stored in Indiana Jones, stacked to the ceiling with tobacco. They can make exceptional cigars if they strive to do so.

And as above; for the most part I would say when a cigar comes out of El Titan de Bronze, it's almost always going to score quite high. I bet if you looked at the numbers 85% of what has come out of El Titan de Bronze landed in Top 15 lists over the years.

[Bijan]

1 minute ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

Also comparing the Cohiba M to a Guant ... 🤣 ... General Cigar Co. has a warehouse, similar to where the Ark of the Covenant was stored in Indiana Jones, stacked to the ceiling with tobacco. They can make exceptional cigars if they strive to do so.

I'm not basing this on reviews. But I'm on Canadian FB groups, and maybe 80-90% of the cigars are NCs but I don't see NC Cohibas at all. I just assume they must be ignorable, and potentially bad. That's the only way they resemble guants, in that no enthusiast seems to smoke them, though they're out there. Maybe if I was in US groups, I'd get more exposure.

[Hollywood Ninja]

I'll trust your records better than my memory of a recent 2424 of $90 for a 3pk of CoRo; it's also a little academic as General Cohiba and HSA Cohiba will never be on the same shelf.
If you're not familiar with Titan El Bronze, their cigars are always very good, I frankly chase them more than CC. CC usually win on price tho, especially as I have other preferences and criteria.
 

Absolutely this. Brilliant move on General’s part having that smoke made there. Lots of my favorite cigars come out of El Titan including the La Colmena series. To lump what comes from there with the rest of the NC Cohiba line is not a fair comparison.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Çnote]

41 minutes ago, Bijan said:

I'm not basing this on reviews. But I'm on Canadian FB groups, and maybe 80-90% of the cigars are NCs but I don't see NC Cohibas at all. I just assume they must be ignorable, and potentially bad. That's the only way they resemble guants, in that no enthusiast seems to smoke them, though they're out there. Maybe if I was in US groups, I'd get more exposure.

I'd say not alot of enthusiasts reach for a Cohiba and post it. A very small sample size, but I used to sell more NC Cohiba without marketing in a previous life. I see alot of Cohiba smoked in lounges as well. For someone who is just looking for 'a good cigar,' Cohiba is still the #1 recognized brand, even if what is sold in the USA has nothing to do at all with legacy of the CC side 

Edit: to be clear, General Cohiba are not sold in Canada at all, so someone is going to really have to reach to get them and then post to FB or whatever.

[Cigar Surgeon]

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

I'm not basing this on reviews. But I'm on Canadian FB groups, and maybe 80-90% of the cigars are NCs but I don't see NC Cohibas at all. I just assume they must be ignorable, and potentially bad. That's the only way they resemble guants, in that no enthusiast seems to smoke them, though they're out there. Maybe if I was in US groups, I'd get more exposure.

I mean you're not wrong historically, NC Cohibas have not been a particularly interesting or good cigar. 

But there's a fundamental difference between CCs and NCs. What NC Cohiba was last year could be 180 degrees to what a NC Cohiba is this year. While CCs stay consistent (or try to) year over year, NCs change constantly.

And honestly I think there's a fundamental lack of understanding that fact among many CC smokers who might dabble now and again with NCs. I smoked a Joya cigar once and that represents all Joyas for the rest of time.

[Enduin]

The whole Cohiba M thing sounds a bit like the NC Monte New York Edition from 2012-2013, don't remember the exact date but I was still living in NY when it can out. NC Monte was considered absolute crap even by NC smokers, along with all NC versions of CC marcas, or at least all the NC smokers I knew. 

Then someone at General decided that they wanted to compete in the premium NC market and made a cigar that was actually pretty good. I only smoked one and found it too young/rough and was not very impressed, but it was indeed better than the older NC Monte. Same thing happened after another couple of years or so with the Romeo by RyJ, again the NC version. 

So while the vast majority of NC version of CC marcas are still to this day crap, there is a history of them being able to make something decent, when they want to. Additionally the Titan de Bronze factory does turn out some pretty good cigars, including the super coveted La Palina Goldie, which price aside was one of the best NCs I smoked years ago. So I think it's certainly plausible that the Cohiba M is actually a good NC cigar. Just because a cigar have been crap so far, it doesn't mean that it will always be crap. 

With that said would I buy it? No. Of all NC versions of CC marcas, Cohiba is the one that I find the least justifiable and frankly it bothers me, just like it bothers me to see any knockoffs of known brands. That and the price makes it completely uninteresting to me. But strictly in terms of quality, it probably deserves the benefit of the doubt. 

[Bijan]

32 minutes ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

I mean you're not wrong historically, NC Cohibas have not been a particularly interesting or good cigar. 

But there's a fundamental difference between CCs and NCs. What NC Cohiba was last year could be 180 degrees to what a NC Cohiba is this year. While CCs stay consistent (or try to) year over year, NCs change constantly.

And honestly I think there's a fundamental lack of understanding that fact among many CC smokers who might dabble now and again with NCs. I smoked a Joya cigar once and that represents all Joyas for the rest of time.

This is an interesting issue with broader issues of quality control. CCs are worse at the narrow aspect of QC in manufacturing processes. That is ensuring that they deliver acceptable quality cigars and weed out the rejects in any given batch. But from what you are saying NCs are worse at ensuring they deliver consistent quality over time, year over year. Both place a burden on the consumer. In the CC world to assume losses on dud cigars and dud boxes and in the NC world to track trends over time and quality of new and old releases.

This probably points to different needs in terms of reviews. With CCs personally I want to see many reviews of many different boxes and cigars over several years to get an idea of how good a good example of the cigar is and what is the variability. An old review is probably as relevant as a recent review, which given what you say is not at all true of NCs. Again this probably doesn't apply to the ELs and REs that halfwheel reviews, so I'm probably going off topic again. But I'm mainly into regular production.

For example RyJ Churchills are to me not as good as Sir Winstons or Esplendidos and also not as consistent. There are changes over time but they are broad trends and not super specific to a given year.

Anyways to me consistency over time is a very nice thing, and something that is quite impressive in a hand made organic good. I can buy a box of Monte 4, Monte 2, Siglo whatever and know what I'm getting without much thought, even after a decade, with some unavoidable changes over time, but with some consistency. The big danger with CCs is discontinuation of vitolas, though Montecristo and Cohiba are relatively safe.

[Enduin]

@Bijan I think you and Surgeon are talking about two different aspects of quality and that is pretty representative of the CC/NC debate. One thing is construction and one thing is flavor. CCs tend to fall short on construction, NCs tend to fall short on flavor. When Surgeon was talking earlier in the thread about NCs getting worse after 2018 I bet it was not about plugged cigars, but rather the flavor profile. Both things can be called "Quality" and they are two halves of the same thing: ideally we want both good construction and a good flavor profile. 

With NCs there are factors that are not present on the CC side of things. Something like a specific brand that after becoming successful, sells off to a conglomerate and the result being cigars that might still be well constructed but taste worse/bland/etc. Basically they become more like cookie-cutter commercial stuff instead of a unique brand. Camacho and Drew Estate come to mind. 

The change can also be about where the tobacco is sourced, because not being limited to just one country (like Cuba), NCs brands can source tobacco from wherever they want, which sometimes makes the cigars better, other times it makes them worse (but maybe cheaper to make). 

Then there is the whole re-imagining a certain brand, like some of the examples we discussed including the Cohiba M. Usually that works out for the best, but it's still a pretty big change. 

[NSXCIGAR]

11 hours ago, Meklown said:

May I know through your analysis, how many % of NCs reviewed reached 90 or higher? 

Ugh, a whole new calculation. Not sure I have time to do that. Much fewer CC reviews so it was easier to total them.