The Change Most Cuban Want and How

[El Presidente]

 

Good article 

The Change Most Cubans Want and How

 June 16, 2021

By Osmel Ramirez Alvarez

Photo: Juan Suarez

HAVANA TIMES – If there is one thing that we Cubans can all agree on, it’s the need for change in Cuba. This is something that not only the opposition or your average citizen who suffers the systemic crisis every day understands, but also the ruling Communist Party. It’s sparkling clear for all to see; things haven’t been working properly for a long time and they need to change.

 

https://havanatimes.org/diaries/osmelramirez/the-change-most-cubans-want-and-how/

[NSXCIGAR]

It’s telling that when civil society surveys Cubans, most say they want change and they want this change to come from within the Government itself.

This is like a battered wife wanting the husband to change rather than leaving and finding one that treats them well. 

I'm sure the Communist Party will see the light and start reading Montesquieu any day now. 

Unfortunately, the Cubans and many other people have no idea the true nature of Communist parties, just like some people really believe a violent, cruel, sadistic person can have an epiphany and become a teddy bear.  

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

It’s telling that when civil society surveys Cubans, most say they want change and they want this change to come from within the Government itself.

This is like a battered wife wanting the husband to change rather than leaving and finding one that treats them well. 

I'm sure the Communist Party will see the light and start reading Montesquieu any day now. 

Unfortunately, the Cubans and many other people have no idea the true nature of Communist parties, just like some people really believe a violent, cruel, sadistic person can have an epiphany and become a teddy bear.  

You pretty much summed it up in a nutshell. 

[Corylax18]

4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

 Unfortunately, the Cubans and many other people have no idea the true nature of Communist parties, just like some people really believe a violent, cruel, sadistic person can have an epiphany and become a teddy bear.  

I have to disagree on this lone point. Most Cuban's I've met are pretty well informed of just how dysfunctional their government and the Cuban form of "communism" is. There may be a few very old Fidelista's hanging around, but they are a small minority. 

But, they would rather dance with the one that brung them. As an American, I understand the mentality. As broken as our Democracy is right now (that's not an invitation to discuss who broke it) I'm not going to spend one second listening to Emmanuelle Macron(insert any leader here) tell me how to do it better. I know for a fact the French think we and our government are Violent, Cruel and Sadistic, but I still don't give a flip about there Opinion. 

Just like the average Cuban Citizen couldn't care less what you or I or any of us think. They have hope that they can/will figure it out themselves.

The last thing they want is the U.S. or Spain to come and "fix" the problem for them again. Fidel and Raul Pillaging the Country is still easier to Stomach then us or the Spaniards doing it again. 

If you add up all my trips, I've spent months of my life in Cuba, I haven't met a communist yet. 

[Huckleberry]

Where has communism worked for its people?  Just curious...

[NSXCIGAR]

4 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

But, they would rather dance with the one that brung them

That's a big problem, and one that is exemplified by the contrast between the French and American Revolutions. The French ultimately wanted to keep the monarchy but mold it to their will. The Americans wanted nothing to do with the British-style monarchical-parliamentary system. They determined that system was undesirable and created a new one based in classical and enlightenment thinking. I hope the Cubans can get there intellectually somehow. 

 

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Where has communism worked for its people?  Just curious...

Depends what you mean by "worked." It's extremely effective at creating wealth equality--99% of the people have equal amounts of nothing.

It's also good at expanding the average citizen's diet. Who would have thought to eat tree bark and dirt cakes in North Korea? Necessity certainly is the mother of invention.

[Bijan]

36 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

That's a big problem, and one that is exemplified by the contrast between the French and American Revolutions. The French ultimately wanted to keep the monarchy but mold it to their will. The Americans wanted nothing to do with the British-style monarchical-parliamentary system. They determined that system was undesirable and created a new one based in classical and enlightenment thinking. I hope the Cubans can get there intellectually somehow. 

I don't know if that's an accurate view of the French vs American revolutions or if the contrast and comparison is valid.

In my view revolutions rarely succeed because the existing structure does not change, and you can see this in the French and Russian revolutions.

The American revolution is unique in that the country lacked Feudal structures or at least didn't have them to anywhere near the extent as everywhere in Europe.

[Ites]

Where has communism worked for its people?  Just curious...

I do agree, however it is also a useless point to make.. For the most commonly accepted alternative is some sort of democracy. And let's face it, that ain't working for its people either so the statement that it hasn't or isn't working for the people does not prove its inadequacy.

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

If you add up all my trips, I've spent months of my life in Cuba, I haven't met a communist yet. 

What?! You mean I didn't show you my little red book the last time I saw you?

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

I don't know if that's an accurate view of the French vs American revolutions or if the contrast and comparison is valid.

In my view revolutions rarely succeed because the existing structure does not change, and you can see this in the French and Russian revolutions.

The American revolution is unique in that the country lacked Feudal structures or at least didn't have them to anywhere near the extent as everywhere in Europe.

I don't think the French Rev changed much in terms of structure at all, at least not for the first 5 years. They decided simply to kill anyone with power while accepting the continued source of the power. The issue always was the king and the centralized power structure, period (certainly in Tocqueville's opinion). They attacked the branches, not the root. They wanted to give the third estate more power within the existing political framework. 

The American Rev was unique in that it was a revolution to continue a way of life and not to replace one regime with another. The American Rev being a secession is more accurate and what followed was essentially a defensive war. 

As far as the 1917 Russian revolution(s) the Oct Rev was just a Bolshevik party political takeover like the Nazis and the Cuban Revs. 

The American Rev completely supplanted the overarching political structure but as most of daily life was already running without much influence from the British it wasn't a jarring change for the colonists. Imagine Hong Kong kicking China out. Not much would change for the citizens day-to-day but the entire overarching political system would be thrown off. 

Cuba's problem is that it has no philosophical foundation as a guide much like Russia, Vietnam or Cambodia. I really do believe they see the only two options as pre-Castro and post-Castro, and all the US ever did was exploit them. They don't know who or what to trust. 

Communism is like a tumor that will metastasize. If the majority of the population thinks it's viable it will grow within any modern political system. I think it's going to be very difficult to convince the majority of Cubans that communism isn't just a sub-optimal ideology--it's destructive. That requires a real socio-economic understanding

[Nino]

8 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

If you add up all my trips, I've spent months of my life in Cuba, I haven't met a communist yet. 

If I add all my trips I must have spent a year or 2 in Cuba and I have met quite a few self-declared Cuban communists ( enjoying the perks of the Nomenklatura mostly or living well skimming off Yumas ) as well as a wide range of foreign salon lefties from Spain to US to Italy enjoying Ivan Justo's Paladar while praising socialism in Cuba.

That opinion piece was easy reading of vague Kumbaya BS until the writer took off his disguise last 3 paragrahs and wished for "more of this political suicide but better organized by the PCC". If that is all your intellectual contribution to the Cuban debate, keep eating grass and BS from the PCC comemierda. Changing a nightmare that has lasted 62 years by not overthrowing the PCC is like having sex for virginity ....

Rubbish.

"This means that we can’t get tired of proposing an agreed upon change that the Cuban people want, without hanging up our gloves though mind you, because the objective can’t be to overthrow the PCC, but to build a Better Cuba.

The PCC really doesn’t need the opposition to fix Cuba and guide it towards the three abovementioned objectives. In reality, the country has everything it needs to do this and can take complete credit, but power-hungry leaders stop this, and thanks to them, we are able to play a key part.

Instead of just being spectators or slow agents giving excuses to the PCC for everything remaining at a standstill, it’s better to push, apply pressure and even force them to do whatever needs doing for the change that most people truly really want. The time it takes us to build a Better Cuba is the same as the time it takes us to discover and accept our political reality."

[Bijan]

7 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The American Rev was unique in that it was a revolution to continue a way of life and not to replace one regime with another. The American Rev being a secession is more accurate and what followed was essentially a defensive war. 

I agree. Which makes it a very apples and oranges comparison with something like the French revolution that set out not only to change the regime, but to topple both the political and social systems.

Agree with your other points too.

7 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Cuba's problem is that it has no philosophical foundation as a guide much like Russia, Vietnam or Cambodia. I really do believe they see the only two options as pre-Castro and post-Castro, and all the US ever did was exploit them. They don't know who or what to trust. 

I think Cuba's problem is going to be Russia's problem but not that they don't have a philosophical foundation, but that they may end up with an oligarchy. The same or perhaps different people owning most of the wealth, but the country has some sort of market economy. The real challenge is going to be to transfer ownership from the state/military/whatever to the private sector fairly. Privatisations tend to be shady and questionable deals in liberal democracies, getting it right in Cuba is going to be hard.

(We have a highway here in Ontario Canada the 407-ETR, that was sold (leased for 99 years) at cost to a company that now maximises profit even though that means the road is badly underutilised and traffic is terrible everywhere else. Tolls I think are currently over $0.50 a mile.)

[Corylax18]

Cuba has been running under a "Chinese Model" for years. The biggest difference is that the predominantly capitalist economy in Cuba is almost completely underground/black market. Even during the peak of the "opening" we saw in response to Obama's moves there was very little interaction between the PCC and the majority of the real economic activity on the island. 

I don't see an actual China Model (Single Party Communist Government mixed with a Quasi Capitalist Economy) working in Cuba. Any true embrace of capitalism is simply the antithesis of what the PCC has claimed it wants/represents. It would be a complete abandonment of all they've pretended to represent. 

I think Cuban citizens could transition to capitalism in the blink of an eye. Most are already very comfortable with how it works and how they work within that system. I dont believe the current communist party would be capable of this transition in any time frame though. 

[Nino]

27 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Cuba has been running under a "Chinese Model" for years. The biggest difference is that the predominantly capitalist economy in Cuba is almost completely underground/black market. Even during the peak of the "opening" we saw in response to Obama's moves there was very little interaction between the PCC and the majority of the real economic activity on the island. 

I don't see an actual China Model (Single Party Communist Government mixed with a Quasi Capitalist Economy) working in Cuba. Any true embrace of capitalism is simply the antithesis of what the PCC has claimed it wants/represents. It would be a complete abandonment of all they've pretended to represent. 

I think Cuban citizens could transition to capitalism in the blink of an eye. Most are already very comfortable with how it works and how they work within that system. I dont believe the current communist party would be capable of this transition in any time frame though. 

@Corylax18 - I almost spit out my drink reading your first sentence. The rest of your comment clarifies/rectifies it but still .... bad joke 😉

Don't think you have been to China, your comparison is certainly way off. This coming from someone who first was in China back in 1979 and has followed its progress since. I always hoped for Cuba to follow the Chinese economic model - it never has. It always screwed it - tighter and worser. Like they had to prove only Cuba has the real "socialist" model.

I wish Cuba had some semblance of a China/Viet-Nam economic model. It has never had it and it never will unless the PCC is kicked out or a pragmatic leader resembling Deng Xiao Peng emerges, which I don't see coming. Hardliners rule.

Even the Obama era "good times" in Cuba were bad enough, so I fear the bad times now will be terrible. And I don't want to be there when the system hits the brick wall. It will not be pretty.

[Corylax18]

Haha. I should have started with my last sentence and worked backwards. We agree that a China/Vietnam model would not work in Cuba today. As I said, the Communist party as currently constructed simply couldn't embrace it without completely abandoning the stance they've held for decades. Add the extra hubris from the embargo issues and it will never, ever happen. 

Diaz-Canel certainly isn't the leader that's going to make the whole sale changes needed. As you said, some sort of "brickwall" is going to force change eventually. 

[Nino]

Yes, and to clarify - I am talking about the original China economic model back in the 80's, not the repressive hegemonistic system in place in China today.

Diaz Canel is a joke and I doubt he has the support of the military, certainly not of the people, so let's see. It certainly will not be pretty when it ends.

[Corylax18]

13 minutes ago, Nino said:

Diaz Canel is a joke and I doubt he has the support of the military

This is an excellent point. The Military and its "commercial" arm GAESA are uniquely well positioned to take over the second Raul's heart stops beating. Whoever takes Raul's position running the military could very well be the next leader of the country. 

[Huckleberry]

On 6/16/2021 at 11:37 PM, Ites said:

I do agree, however it is also a useless point to make.. For the most commonly accepted alternative is some sort of democracy. And let's face it, that ain't working for its people either so the statement that it hasn't or isn't working for the people does not prove its inadequacy.

In some high level way I am sure you are correct.  I do have access to toilet paper, so maybe in some ways democracy has shown to be a better form of government for at least me anyway

[Bijan]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

In some high level way I am sure you are correct.  I do have access to toilet paper, so maybe in some ways democracy has shown to be a better form of government for at least me anyway

The covid pandemic laid bare the fallacy of democratic toilet paper supply 😂

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

The covid pandemic laid bare the fallacy of democratic toilet paper supply 😂

[Huckleberry]

14 hours ago, Bijan said:

The covid pandemic laid bare the fallacy of democratic toilet paper supply 😂

Nobody I knew ended up using a hole in the ground or their hand to wipe

It did make for some "solid" reporting, no pun intended.

[Nino]

15 hours ago, Bijan said:

The covid pandemic laid bare the fallacy of democratic toilet paper supply 😂

Don't we love our luxury problems ... 🙂