Wrapper changing color

[Cigarsmoker81]

I’ve an electric humidor and I’m keeping it at 65/65 

ive received a cab of 50 Luis 3 weeks ago and I kept it on the same chelf as other boxes

i constantly do monitor the humidity and it’s 65 RH +\- 2%. The temp is almost constant 65

When I opened the box to check on it I noticed the wrapper became pale  and lost all sheen and the foot of several cigars became cracked. I’ve checked other cigars on the same shelf and they were fine. The lusis  had some push to them and they didn’t crack. 

the humidor has a glass door and it’s placed away from the window but the room has a lot of sunlight ( not directly hitting the humidor though) 

 

I’ve two questions, one what caused this ? And the second is should I expect the flavor to change ? ( I’ll only know once I try but I don’t want to smoke one before atleast 30 days) 

 

edit; I’ve since cleared the shelf and put them in a coolidor with 69 boveda bags. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Cigarsmoker81
Adding info

[smbauerllc]

Dont have any answers for you, sorry, but tagging this thread as I'm curious about what the experts think about this.

Haven't ever had any change color, which wouldn't really concern me, but the cracking fool and loss of oils/sheen would.

Losing oils will mute if not eliminate, the flavor depending on how much they lost.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

[Enduin]

@Cigarsmoker81 I would be very wary of increasing the RH if you have some cigars with a cracked foot as I usually associate a cracked foot in the box with over humidification not under. Plus you say that the cigars have some give and don't crack when handling them, which again points to the cigars not being too dry. I'm concerned that by putting them in a 69% RH environment you might make the problem worse not better...

No idea about what could make the wrapper change color, I've never seen such a thing happening and short of being bleached by direct sun (which you say is not an issue) I can't think of a rational explanation, especially in such a short amount of time... Plus I'm assuming the cab is closed inside the humidor since you talk about opening the box to check the cigars so it doesn't really matter what is the sunlight situation in the room if the box is closed. 

Are you 100% sure that the color was different when the cigars arrived? Any chance that you looked at them with more/less light? Or artificial vs natural light? When it comes to distinguishing different shades of the same color the amount and kind of light (sun, incandescence, fluorescent, etc) can make a huge difference. 

Lastly about the sheen loss, that's also extremely odd. We are still talking about just 3 weeks. There are people who dry box cigars for 1 week and the cigars are not ruined. I myself tried it with a cigar that was very stubbornly plugged. I really don't see how 3 weeks in a 65% RH could cause a loss of oils... 

My advise is since you have a 50 cab, get one out and smoke it. See how it is, it might surprise you, sometimes really bad looking cigars smoke great. If it sucks put them back in the humi and give it another month or two. Rinse and repeat.

That is assuming of course that you got the cigars here on FOH or from another trusted vendor, if there is any doubt about provenance it might the better to get in touch with the vendor first.

[Chibearsv]

Change of wrapper color in 3 weeks seems impossible to me.  Change of sheen though is possible but sometimes can be solved with more patience.  Maybe you are perceiving a color change due to the more matte finish vs gloss you may have seen originally?  I'd give them a couple more months at 65/65.

[PigFish]

You say your humidor has electric cooling? I sincerely doubt that the rH swings are +-2%.

Humidors with active cooling, something I know a lot about, require some very sophisticated design to perform within that range. It is not easy...

Boveda products do not have the hysteresis required to compete (keep up with) active cooling humidors. Your spreads for cooling cycles, depending on the ambient conditions and the duration of cooling cycles may well have your humidor drying to the 30 or 40rH level (in areas/in toto).

As a warning... Just because you don't see it, does not mean it is not happening. One does not see a lot outside of their field of view, in life, or in humidors. This is not a crack about your humidor. This is a slice of wisdom from building the worlds best controlled humidors (debatably) for over a decade now.

The cracked feet. That is from handling/mishandling. I doubt it developed as the result of your humidor. The fractures were likely there, again, you just did not see them.

Drying tends to contract cigars. As stated above, obtuse cracking (to me) sounds like swelling, not drying!

65/65 (if that is accurate) is not dry for Cuban cigars. That is wet for Cuban cigars (MHO).

As an example of what I was saying about control of humidors, this is one of mine.

In this pic, the humidor is in the shop and the temp ambient temp is about 87F (greenish dashed line). Temp at the location of the data logger (by the door) is about 70F (2pt red solid line) and the low to high range as shown by the peak and valley is 3.36rH (1pt blue line). With the gray vertical grid lines representing 1 minute duration, you can see that the lows and highs generally dwell about 1 minute.

For the record, this is not done by putting a controller and Boveda packs in a wine cooler. This humidor is a very sophisticated electro mechanical design, empirically proven robust by a decade of research/experimentation. It is not accidental, nor build for a single ambient.

One's typical (non-scientific instrument type) hygrometer would read this as a steady state. Hell it might not even accurately depict the 'steady state...'

Without offense meant, what you are seeing, and what you are not, may not be the reality of the matter.

(All MHO, posted for the edification of all readers and not to insult any reader.)

Cheers! -the Pig

[Bri Fi]

Do you have pics of the Cigars? 

[OrangePaw]

59 minutes ago, PigFish said:

You say your humidor has electric cooling? I sincerely doubt that the rH swings are +-2%.

Humidors with active cooling, something I know a lot about, require some very sophisticated design to perform within that range. It is not easy...

Boveda products do not have the hysteresis required to compete (keep up with) active cooling humidors. Your spreads for cooling cycles, depending on the ambient conditions and the duration of cooling cycles may well have your humidor drying to the 30 or 40rH level (in areas/in toto).

As a warning... Just because you don't see it, does not mean it is not happening. One does not see a lot outside of their field of view, in life, or in humidors. This is not a crack about your humidor. This is a slice of wisdom from building the worlds best controlled humidors (debatably) for over a decade now.

The cracked feet. That is from handling/mishandling. I doubt it developed as the result of your humidor. The fractures were likely there, again, you just did not see them.

Drying tends to contract cigars. As stated above, obtuse cracking (to me) sounds like swelling, not drying!

65/65 (if that is accurate) is not dry for Cuban cigars. That is wet for Cuban cigars (MHO).

As an example of what I was saying about control of humidors, this is one of mine.

In this pic, the humidor is in the shop and the temp ambient temp is about 87F (greenish dashed line). Temp at the location of the data logger (by the door) is about 70F (2pt red solid line) and the low to high range as shown by the peak and valley is 3.36rH (1pt blue line). With the gray vertical grid lines representing 1 minute duration, you can see that the lows and highs generally dwell about 1 minute.

For the record, this is not done by putting a controller and Boveda packs in a wine cooler. This humidor is a very sophisticated electro mechanical design, empirically proven robust by a decade of research/experimentation. It is not accidental, nor build for a single ambient.

One's typical (non-scientific instrument type) hygrometer would read this as a steady state. Hell it might not even accurately depict the 'steady state...'

Without offense meant, what you are seeing, and what you are not, may not be the reality of the matter.

(All MHO, posted for the edification of all readers and not to insult any reader.)

Cheers! -the Pig

Now you’ve got me wondering about my setup.  I have a Newair 840 and use several 320g Boveda packs.  I added a separate diamond crown hygrometer that consistently reads 65-65 and that matches my Boveda butler reading within +-1 degree.  Does that sound reasonable?

[PigFish]

20 hours ago, OrangePaw said:

Now you’ve got me wondering about my setup.  I have a Newair 840 and use several 320g Boveda packs.  I added a separate diamond crown hygrometer that consistently reads 65-65 and that matches my Boveda butler reading within +-1 degree.  Does that sound reasonable?

I am driven to pursue what works. What that means, is that I am interested in an unbiased conversation and exploration in what can be proven (to work). If you pour a slab of concrete, tests can be done to check the flatness. That is proof. "It looks flat to me..." is not proof.

With that considered, I cannot tell anyone what works or does not work for them. There are all sorts of factors here, including personal opinion of what working means. Even I define working. But in the end, whatever definition one uses, there must be some proof. Proof is in part the cigars and the smoking experience. But I cannot wait a decade to prove something only anecdotally. I demand evidence beyond that. As a humidor designer, I need to have faster, real time proof of performance. I need this so that the design decisions I make can be pursued, or trashed.

Beyond what one considers anecdotal proof, there are laws of physics at play here. In this case the laws are referred to as psychrometrics. When the temperature drops close to, or below the dew point, you get visible condensation. That is the law. It is not opinion. That water converts to liquid from its gaseous form suspended in the space. A reduction of water in the space is represented in a reduction of rH or aH. That is it in a nutshell.

No passive elements (meaning Boveda) and solutions will react fast enough to counter that movement of water from solution in space cause by an active cooler... None of them! Let me clarify that. If they did, they would require the whole humidor space to react at the rate that active refrigeration can remove water. You can watch water form on a cooling coil. The hysteresis for water condensing on a cooling coil and water being emitted via diffusion through a membrane of the same surface area are vastly different. What the surface area equitant is, the ratio of what surface areas one would need in passive membrane systems to that of a cooling coil below the dew point, is beyond me. It is not important to me due to the fact that I am not dependent on one of these systems.

I can tell you this. The chart above is generated from an automated humidor where the relationship of the humidors cooler and its ability to strip water, is controlled and then matched by an active humidifier to replenish what water as been removed, real time. While this humidor still uses set points. Future generations will be able to measure parameters, and then decide the best course of action. I am getting ahead of myself here.

If you are happy with the condition of your cigars, then there is no need for me to rile you. I would warn you however, that many that have had these systems, have rigorously defended their opinion about them 'working.' Yet some, sometimes years later have privately contacted me asking my help for a solution to their humidor that 'suddenly' stopped working for them. That is just my experience.

Accidental controlled humidors sometimes work. It depends on the ambient and one's definition of working. A robust humidor design works in a broad range of conditions and can be proven to work with scientific instruments. The best systems (MHO) for varying climates (changing ambient conditions) are fully automated, forward and reverse acting systems. If your ambient is rock solid (does not change), and it meets your requirements for storage, your humidor can be the kitchen table... I don't have those conditions.... ever! I therefore use a humidor..

Cheers! -Piggy

 

Ahhh... And welcome to the forum...

[OrangePaw]

Thanks Piggy for your insight/thoughts and forum welcome!  I look forward to continuing to absorb information and learning more about the CC world.