Hotels become hospitals as Cuba battles soaring COVID cases


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How can we trust any of the numbers coming out of Cuba? If the did want to publish accurate numbers, it is unclear to me that the have the public health infrastructure to capture them. I would put their credibility somewhere in the neighborhood of North Korea’s.

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On 8/9/2021 at 1:10 AM, Nino said:

Exactly - those Cubans are the ones telling the truth, the ones I listen to - not the cooked gvt books or the Granma BS stories about the great working Cuban health system ....

I didn't get any of the numbers I posted from Granma or any source affiliated with the Cuban Gov. You know I'm not that Naïve. I'm Talking/Listening to some of the same people you are. I should have been more clear in separating the functional (atleast semi functional) parts of their Healthcare system from "the party". There's a lot of similarities to the Cigar industry actually. I laud the people that can create wonderful results (cigars or health outcomes) DESPITE the government doing their best to ruin everything, not because the government works so well. I'm certainly not advocating for similar systems to be installed anywhere else on the planet.

 

On 8/10/2021 at 6:22 AM, Nino said:

Dr. Pando explains that these discrepancies on the number of patients who die on the day and the official figures are due to an agreement "that is out of our hands", and that consisted of reporting the deaths "of those patients who did not have comorbidities. ".

This has been happening in the US as well. I'm sure its happened all over the world, I just have no desire to research it. State level health officials have been caught, red handed, on multiple occasions changing causes of death from what the local medical examiner listed. So, while I don't doubt that Cuba has been juking the stats, I'm 100% sure the number's coming out of the U.S. are complete bullshit, its very easily proven. I'm not talking a few cases, I'm talking 25% of total cases in the state, HUGE discrepancies. Their response? "Oh, we'll just start reporting two numbers now" Similar to how I ended my last post; Yes, Cuban officials are lying about Covid numbers, just like everyone else. 

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/15/colorado-covid-coronavirus-counting-deaths-fatalities/

On 8/9/2021 at 11:18 PM, Heels82 said:

There was one person who did away with those supplies.  

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Yeah, he "rejected" them so they could pour in through the free market at grossly elevated prices. All while healthcare professionals on the front lines had to reuse masks and gowns for days at time.  

Seriously. Are you kidding, or just trying to agitate? He was a hero for actively worsening the situation on the ground? That's the definition of cutting your nose to spite your face, Hubris is a flaw not a strength. You're missing the forest looking at the tree's.

I do appreciate the use of the Billy Madison Meme though. "A simple wrong would have been just fine. Knibb High Football Rules!" Hahaha

On 8/8/2021 at 9:43 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

As far as I know there aren't any reports of this dynamic occurring in the US, Canada or any other western country although calculation methodology does differ among countries.

Two Links to an egregious case of this happening in the the States are a few lines up in this post. Its happened repeatedly, all over the country, to serve both ends of the political battle. Its actually easier to prove our numbers false because of the transparency. Not exactly a high point for us. The WHO, U.N. and other people that gather these types of numbers routinely place an * next to the numbers for countries like the DPRK, many African countries, etc. Because they know they cant trust what they've seen. Cuba didnt have that * denoting the gathering organization was skeptical, at least anywhere I looked. So all of these organizations are the Cuban governments accomplices? At best? It sounds like you think they're active participants in the crime be reporting what they're told by the Cuban Gov. I really struggle to believe these people would be willing to have their names dragged through the mud simply to benefit the PCC. Maybe they realized years ago that everybody was lying and they stopped caring across the board. I don't know. As I stated in an earlier post though, I'll be the last person to jump to the defense of these organizations after what I've seen the last 18 months. The incompetence that's been displayed is truly staggering. 

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3 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Two Links to an egregious case of this happening in the the States are a few lines up in this post.

I'm referring specifically to infant mortality figures. I'm not aware of any instances of government putting pressure on doctors or hospitals in regards to infant mortality data in the US or Canada. Covid is a different issue entirely. 

And I think you're missing the point on the data gathering organizations. I'm not calling them into question at all. I'm saying they aren't getting accurate data. None of them, no matter how honest they may be. The data is corrupted from the source--literally. The doctors and hospitals are corrupting the data. 

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10 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

And I think you're missing the point on the data gathering organizations. I'm not calling them into question at all. I'm saying they aren't getting accurate data. None of them, no matter how honest they may be. The data is corrupted from the source--literally. The doctors and hospitals are corrupting the data.

But, these data gathering organizations are passing those numbers along as facts. Either they don't know their numbers are way off and they're just bad at what they do, or they know they aren't getting the real numbers and are CHOOSING to pass along this bad data. It's one or the other. Neither is a good look. 

You said you don't believe the numbers they've all put forth for Cuba, fine, I wont argue with that. But that means the organizations are either completely incompetent for reporting those numbers, year after year, or they're on the communist party's pay roll and active participants in a worldwide propaganda campaign. 

There is no excuse for willfully publishing data you know to be false, that's called lying. If these organizations don't have the capacity to check their own work (which it is when they publish it) then they shouldn't exist. I was responsible for parenthetical documentation of reports when I was in 8th grade, people got Zero's for not properly checking and recording their sources. But we don't expect this same level of care from massive multi national organizations that staffed with hundreds/thousands of "experts"? Seems fishy to me. 

Either all their numbers can be trusted or none of them can. We dont get the luxury of cherry picking the data based on our own world views. You've actually helped me evolve my opinion here. I had little faith in the organizations before this, but the more I've looked into it, the worse it got. Haha. I agree, Cuba's infant mortality rates are probably higher than what was stated, but I've lost faith in the accuracy of all the other numbers at the same time. 

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17 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

But we don't expect this same level of care from massive multi national organizations that staffed with hundreds/thousands of "experts"? Seems fishy to me. 

They take Cuba's numbers at face value and they become "official".

But what do you expect from a UN body where Cuba ( or Iran ) are members in the Human Rights Committee ... like there are no political prisoners or torture or loads of free press in Cuba ...

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On 8/12/2021 at 6:26 AM, Corylax18 said:

But, these data gathering organizations are passing those numbers along as facts. Either they don't know their numbers are way off and they're just bad at what they do, or they know they aren't getting the real numbers and are CHOOSING to pass along this bad data. It's one or the other. Neither is a good look. 

I know what you're saying here but the data organizations' job isn't to confirm the validity of the data collected. It's to collect the data professionally and bypassing the state itself is pretty much the best they can do. I mean, there's no concrete proof the numbers are corrupted. It's not for data collectors to judge that it is. They're not in the business of critical analysis. That's what we as critical thinkers do. Do some research and look at the context. We're not owed anything in this world, particularly the truth or accurate data. Always taking statistics at face value is a huge mistake. In this case, there are huge red flags in the case of Cuba that anyone familiar with the situation should spot. You have motive, means and opportunity to falsify data. 

In regards to other data and other areas and other countries, unless there are glaring red flags, there's really no reason to doubt data generally speaking. The first red flag is usually whether the subject in question is politically charged. In the west, infant mortality is not politically charged. In Cuba, it's highly politically charged. As you point out, it has been suggested that there are some discrepancies in US Covid data. Well, Covid is politically charged. That alone is enough to warrant questioning of the data and further critical analysis.

Another red flag would be statistical anomalies and outliers. A country like Cuba putting up remarkable infant mortality numbers is a serious outlier. It defies logic if true based on the facts on the ground in Cuba. That warrants questioning of the data and further investigation. 

In conclusion, we have to take data at face value in most instances based on the sheer amount we are presented with in this day and age. But we should be ready to fully abandon that data at the first sign of trouble. Don't get too attached to any data or statistic and be ready to abandon it as soon as problems arise. I consider data to be like a scientific hypothesis. A loose theory or explanation that needs to be constantly challenged and tested. No one should get too attached to any hypothesis. Hypotheses have a long way to go before becoming theories or laws. 

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