Should Employers have the right to request staff be vaccinated?


Vaccination in the work place.   

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Just now, clint said:

Just wondering if you as an employer would be willing to assume liability for any injuries caused by a vaccine that you mandate to your employees?   The pharmaceutical companies have convinced  governments to grant them immunity from liability so I'm guessing they would probably do the same for business.

In Oz no vaccine was given before approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA). 

Fingers (and lawyers) would be pointing at them. 

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As a front line healthcare worker I'm absolutely sick and tired of people coming in with covid now.  We did it last year, and our hospital lost half its staff. Now we're understaffed like every h

No way should they have that right. People should not be forced to accept a medical procedure in order to work, especially not an experimental and potentially very dangerous one. And it is very much e

Exactly, it’s like the current hysteria with kids supposedly getting it in any serious numbers. Absolutely no scientific or statistical evidence behind it, pure fear propaganda. If you are vaccin

5 minutes ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

I see it as an opportunity for those who choose to get vaccinated to get a better chance at a job. 

Or an opportunity for an employer to advertise they don't require vaccinations, to attract those top employees that don't want to be forced to take anything. 

It will all work out. 

There will be absolutely no collapse of society. 

this is dead on.

-dobbs

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2 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

In Oz no vaccine was given before approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA). 

Fingers (and lawyers) would be pointing at them. 

Was it an Emergency Use Authorization in OZ as well?

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Just now, clint said:

Was it an Emergency Use Authorization in OZ as well?

Not as far as I am aware. 

We were late to the Vax party as a result of waiting for TGA green light. Moderna only received approval last week. 

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Who knows the long term effects of injecting an unapproved vaccine into a person. What if an employer requires all employees to get vaccinated and finds out years later that there is fatal side effects and the people you mandated to take the vaccine in order to keep their jobs  die from it? Is it a decision you can live with? I don't know. 

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46 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

 

1 hour ago, Zebra said:

Even if that’s right it doesn’t stop them transmitting it. This is important because as I currently understand it vaccinated staff will protect no one but themselves. The argument that vaccinated staff protect customers is seemingly a shaky one without any real scientific evidence to back it up.

Expand  

took me a few minutes on google to find all manner scientific evidence and reports to confirm the contrary. studies here involving several hundred thousand (so hardly a small sampling) show transmission is reduced by 40 to 60%. israel has had similar results noting 'huge' and 'significant' reductions. the CDC has reported the same.

you can choose not to believe them but that doesn't mean it is not true. plenty of scientific evidence if you don't simply dismiss it because it doesn't suit your view. 

apparently the moderna vax is even made or being adjusted, with this aim in mind. 

 

Seemingly not so with the Delta variant which was apparently responsible for 99% of infections in the UK during the last week of July.

I suppose it also boils down to which scientific sources we trust and why.

You can choose to believe the CDC and “Israel” but that does not necessarily mean it’s true either. It should be obvious that propaganda from both these sources exists. Google is also notorious for censorship, but that’s another conversation and nothing really hinges upon it. We must all wade through the bullshit to find the truth and that’s no easy task. In fact I believe it’s deliberately very difficult.

Anyway, I’ll leave it there I think.

 

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16 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Seemingly not so with the Delta variant which was apparently responsible for 99% of infections in the UK during the last week of July.

I suppose it also boils down to which scientific sources we trust and why.

You can choose to believe the CDC and “Israel” but that does not necessarily mean it’s true either. It should be obvious that propaganda from both these sources exists. Google is also notorious for censorship, but that’s another conversation and nothing really hinges upon that it. We must all wade through the bullshit to find the truth and that’s no easy task. In fact I believe it’s deliberately very difficult.

Anyway, I’ll leave it there I think.

 

One litmus test that I like to use when consuming "propaganda" whether it be in main stream media or independent online sources is "does what I see or read match what I am witnessing on the ground in real life, in real time".  Not conclusive proof of anything I admit but it's a starting point.

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3 minutes ago, clint said:

One litmus test that I like to use when consuming "propaganda" whether it be in main stream media or independent online sources is "does what I see or read match what I am witnessing on the ground in real life, in real time".  Not inconclusive proof of anything I admit but it's a starting point.

But people see what they want to see. 

Two people can look at something and see two entirely different things. 

Sometimes it's important to look beyond what you see. 

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I should mention employees also have the right to find a new employer who doesn't require it - or become their own employer. 

I think this is the nail on the head. If it isn’t illegal and the company wants you to do it, you either do it and take their money or find a new job.

Many healthcare employers around me test for tobacco when they test for drugs. They will Norma hire you or fire you if they find it.
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8 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Seemingly not so with the Delta variant which was apparently responsible for 99% of infections in the UK during the last week of July.

 

UK is an interesting case in point. 

Country is highly vaccinated (70% 1 dose, 60% fully).They opened up July. Cases exploded. However cases have fallen sharply over past 2 weeks.  Good signs and hope it continues.

1.jpg

 

 

 

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Just now, Fuzz said:

In this current pandemic climate, we need to change the way we think and do things...

Et tu, Brute    :cofcig:

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Just now, El Presidente said:

Et tu, Brute    :cofcig:

I'm stuck here in Fortress Sydney. I need something to make me smile and keep me sane.

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Just now, Fuzz said:

I'm stuck here in Fortress Sydney. I need something to make me smile and keep me sane.

I feel for you mate. 

You can play with Ken when he is back from the doctor. I will hold you responsible for keeping him in check and avoiding  being suspended for the 6th time. 

.....it is a full time job :rolleyes:

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Just occurred to me that employers mandating vaccines might result in propagation of fake vaccination cards. I'm assuming those who aren't vaccinated by now really don't want to be vaccinated and won't be. We're past that. Anyone not vaccinated at this point is pretty much intentionally avoiding it and will likely continue to.

And I'm also assuming the laws in most western countries prohibit just anyone from trying to find out another's vaccine status. Even if someone grants access I'm assuming they'd be granting access to all their medical information and surely that wouldn't be reasonable for an employer to request. Is there any way to get around a faked vaccine card?

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How many of you as parents of minor children have forced them to get vaxxed? My wife and I have a 15 year old daughter and she refuses the jab. We are respecting her wishes. She is starting the 10th grade next week in a new public HS. No mask mandates here in south carolina either. Should be interesting. I'm sure there are plenty of parents here with opinions.

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24 minutes ago, Enduin said:

Nobody knows the long term effects of the vaccines, true. Nobody knows the long term effects of catching COVID as an unvaccinated person, also true.

If I had to choose between the long term side effects of the vaccine or the long term side effects of COVID, I would choose the vaccine. Easy choice.

Lets assume a vaccinated individual is less likely to transmit the disease to others. Employers have every right to require employees to be vaxed before coming into the office. I'll take it a step further. If we assume the vaccinated are less likely to burden the healthcare system, then hospitals should be able to require a vaccine for anyone wanting to utilize elective surgeries.

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Damn, that's a tough question for a high customer contact business.  We are lucky that the mortgage business has become basically a zero contact business. 

Are you mostly concerned with protecting your employees or your customers or your liability exposure?

Can you require that your customers are vaccinated?  I think the answer to that question might give you a basis for an answer to your original question. 

Do local labor administrations have opinions on this topic and are there any potential waivers of liability that may be available for you regarding both your customers and your employees?

Sorry, I know I'm answering a question with questions but I don't really have a good answer. 

 

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24 minutes ago, NYgarman said:

How many of you as parents of minor children have forced them to get vaxxed? My wife and I have a 15 year old daughter and she refuses the jab. We are respecting her wishes. She is starting the 10th grade next week in a new public HS. No mask mandates here in south carolina either. Should be interesting. I'm sure there are plenty of parents here with opinions.

No Jab No Pay (and No Jab No Play) is an Australian policy initiative which withholds three state payments – Child Care Benefit, the Child Care Rebate and a portion of the fortnightly Family Tax Benefit part A per child – for parents of children under 20 years of age who are not fully immunised 

 

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32 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Just occurred to me that employers mandating vaccines might result in propagation of fake vaccination cards. I'm assuming those who aren't vaccinated by now really don't want to be vaccinated and won't be. We're past that. Anyone not vaccinated at this point is pretty much intentionally avoiding it and will likely continue to.

And I'm also assuming the laws in most western countries prohibit just anyone from trying to find out another's vaccine status. Even if someone grants access I'm assuming they'd be granting access to all their medical information and surely that wouldn't be reasonable for an employer to request. Is there any way to get around a faked vaccine card?

I am pretty sure in this country at least that the govt can cross reference. They already have electronic access to every businesses pay system (by law).  It wouldn't take much for them to run vaccination compliance checks. 

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7 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

Damn, that's a tough question for a high customer contact business.  We are lucky that the mortgage business has become basically a zero contact business. 

Are you mostly concerned with protecting your employees or your customers or your liability exposure?

Can you require that your customers are vaccinated?  I think the answer to that question might give you a basis for an answer to your original question. 

Do local labor administrations have opinions on this topic and are there any potential waivers of liability that may be available for you regarding both your customers and your employees?

Sorry, I know I'm answering a question with questions but I don't really have a good answer. 

 

 

Happening all across North America right now. Businesses requiring their customers being double vaxx'd. (surprisingly enough, more so in the USA than Canada, which I would have never guessed)

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1 hour ago, Zebra said:

Anyway, I’ll leave it there I think.

Sorry one last thing. A recent official Public Health England (PHE) report has shown CT values were similar between vaccinated and unvaccinated cases. This means that once infected there "is limited difference in viral load" between vaccinated and unvaccinated persons.

This backs up what I’ve said earlier so thought I’d share it. 😎

E57CA764-7232-4F08-B829-5A5B2C0A8201.jpeg

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