Should Employers have the right to request staff be vaccinated?


Vaccination in the work place.   

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As a front line healthcare worker I'm absolutely sick and tired of people coming in with covid now.  We did it last year, and our hospital lost half its staff. Now we're understaffed like every h

No way should they have that right. People should not be forced to accept a medical procedure in order to work, especially not an experimental and potentially very dangerous one. And it is very much e

Exactly, it’s like the current hysteria with kids supposedly getting it in any serious numbers. Absolutely no scientific or statistical evidence behind it, pure fear propaganda. If you are vaccin

2 minutes ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

 

Happening all across North America right now. Businesses requiring their customers being double vaxx'd. (surprisingly enough, more so in the USA than Canada, which I would have never guessed)

I haven't experienced that at all around here yet.  That policy should have started with commercial airline flights instead of sitting everyone a few inches apart and requiring mask wearing and quarantine (which no one monitors).  

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I would say yes, as ,  I can see businesses getting sued/health ins. increases/coverage dropped, if they get an outbreak. Thats all some of these poor business owners need after this mess of lockdowns etc.   In Ontario, we have required for years that school aged kids get vaxed for various things, or you can't go. I don't see how this is different. Ok, so this vax isn't "approved"......but how much more of a test do we need , considering the millions of doses done, with the very low incidents of bad/fatal reactions? ALL vaxs have some bad side effects. Seems the effects of covid are much worse. I know 2 people that didn't make it, and they were no where near deaths door or have health issues when they got it. I feel for our health care professionals.....I know a couple that are getting burnt out with long hours/low staff, and dealing with this. 

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5 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

I haven't experienced that at all around here yet.  That policy should have started with commercial airline flights instead of sitting everyone a few inches apart and requiring mask wearing and quarantine (which no one monitors).  

Here's an example from your backyard

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/metro-chicago-to-require-proof-of-covid-vaccination-at-upcoming-concerts-venue-says/2578964/

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1 minute ago, d2d4 said:

Won’t touch the Covid Vax subject with a 10’ pole especially after reading so many opposing comments and opinions on this thread.
 

To be fair, FOH has always been an advocate of respectful and open discussion. 

Well, we give it every chance :D

So far, this thread is an example of how it should occur. 

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20 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

To be fair, FOH has always been an advocate of respectful and open discussion. 

Well, we give it every chance :D

So far, this thread is an example of how it should occur. 

Don’t lose hope. This thread is still young. 🙂

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52 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

I am pretty sure in this country at least that the govt can cross reference. They already have electronic access to every businesses pay system (by law).  It wouldn't take much for them to run vaccination compliance checks. 

But who can the government give that information to? Just anyone? The government would have to provide that to the employer. If an employer can just call up and get it then pretty much anyone can. Imagine if you're applying for jobs. Every prospective employer would have to get the info. I suppose the employee could consent for the government to share it but what is the law regarding sharing of medical information in Australia? I know in the US there are very strict federal laws about medical privacy and it would have to be fully consented to by the patient for a specific individual to see it and I don't think you can pick and choose what info is shared. It's all or nothing and no one would think it's reasonable to have to share that. 

Are we talking about employers mandating vaccinations on their own or are we talking about the government mandating employers verify it? Two very different things. I was under the impression the question was can employers mandate vaccines on their own. In that case, an employer can just check with the government for anyone's vaccination status? Doesn't seem right.

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As cuban cigar smokers here in the states I’d imagine that the lion share of us would be opposed to forced mandates. However we’re not talking about the devils lettuce or some fermented leaves, we’re talking about the ability to maintain work performance in light of a global pandemic.
 

For those of us in essential sectors, having to deal with employee illness, remote logistics where remote just won’t do and quickly having to ensure that everyone came into work all of last year, we now have an easy answer. We now have the ability to have a work force that is more resilient and has a less likely chance of coming down with Covid or atleast mitigating their chance at serve illness or death. I for one believe it is an easy choice to mandate employee vaccination.
 

We have begun to require this for our employees and are providing financial incentives to do so. $500 for both doses and a company lottery of $10k in which all employees go into once everyone is vaccinated. 

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1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

I am pretty sure in this country at least that the govt can cross reference. They already have electronic access to every businesses pay system (by law).  It wouldn't take much for them to run vaccination compliance checks. 

 

26 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

But who can the government give that information to? Just anyone? The government would have to provide that to the employer. If an employer can just call up and get it then pretty much anyone can. Imagine if you're applying for jobs. Every prospective employer would have to get the info. I suppose the employee could consent for the government to share it but what is the law regarding sharing of medical information in Australia? I know in the US there are very strict federal laws about medical privacy and it would have to be fully consented to by the patient for a specific individual to see it and I don't think you can pick and choose what info is shared. It's all or nothing and no one would think it's reasonable to have to share that. 

Are we talking about employers mandating vaccinations on their own or are we talking about the government mandating employers verify it? Two very different things. I was under the impression the question was can employers mandate vaccines on their own. In that case, an employer can just check with the government for anyone's vaccination status? Doesn't seem right.

The vaccines are linked to Medicare here in Aus. And if you link your Medicare to your MyGov account (like you can with many licences you may have; eg driver's, occupational, permits), then an employer would be able to use their own MyGov or state based Service app to check your vaccination status. You can already check occupational licences (builders/plumbers/electricians etc) online.

So it wouldn't be much effort to check the validity of someone's vaccine digital certificate. I already have my digital cert on my phone, ready for when it will be required for entry/service etc.

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59 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

 

The vaccines are linked to Medicare here in Aus. And if you link your Medicare to your MyGov account (like you can with many licences you may have; eg driver's, occupational, permits), then an employer would be able to use their own MyGov or state based Service app to check your vaccination status. You can already check occupational licences (builders/plumbers/electricians etc) online.

So it wouldn't be much effort to check the validity of someone's vaccine digital certificate. I already have my digital cert on my phone, ready for when it will be required for entry/service etc.

So any employer has access to your info on this MyGov? What other medical info can they see? And what constitutes an "employer" that has privileges to see this? Sounds pretty easy for just about anyone to get someone else's info on this MyGov. Surely the media could. So really no one can hide their vaccination status in Australia? 

Occupational licenses are no big deal--those are usually publicly available anywhere. Personal medical info is another story. 

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21 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

So any employer has access to your info on this MyGov? What other medical info can they see? And what constitutes an "employer" that has privileges to see this? Sounds pretty easy for just about anyone to get someone else's info on this MyGov. Surely the media could. So really no one can hide their vaccination status in Australia? 

Occupational licenses are no big deal--those are usually publicly available anywhere. Personal medical info is another story. 

No. Govt has access only unless they are prepared (which hasn't happened as yet) to disclose someones vaccination status to a an employer.  

I can't see that happening. I am not sure I want to see it. 

However, should an employee state they are vaccinated and in my returning weekly/fortnighly wage disclosure to the government I have flagged them as "vaccinated"....and they are not, then technically, the government could raise a red flag immediately. 

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16 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

However, should an employee state they are vaccinated and in my returning weekly/fortnighly wage disclosure to the government I have flagged them as "vaccinated"....and they are not, then technically, the government could raise a red flag immediately. 

Got it. But in that case, it would be a matter of the government requiring the employer to state whether the employee has disclosed it to them. I consider that effectively a government mandate. If the government is asking for the info from the employer in order to cross-check it on their end, the employer really isn't free to set policy. They must ask. And why would the govt ask to request that from employers unless they had an agenda? 

Are they actually requesting this info on wage reports you submit?

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1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

No. Govt has access only unless they are prepared (which hasn't happened as yet) to disclose someones vaccination status to a an employer.  

I can't see that happening. I am not sure I want to see it. 

However, should an employee state they are vaccinated and in my returning weekly/fortnighly wage disclosure to the government I have flagged them as "vaccinated"....and they are not, then technically, the government could raise a red flag immediately. 

Each vaccine digital cert has a document number. That could be put in a Govt register and you just look up the number. It could only show your name and date of vaccination. Register is only searchable by document number, not name. That way you can't go and find a similar name and use that doc number.

I don't see the Govt doing the checking (Scummo doesn't hold the register). They will leave that up to employers... and let them worry about all the problems.

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In HK, some businesses (e.g. restaurants, bars) have restricted opening hours in a tiered system, of which, one factor is the vaccination status of their employees.

If an employee's choice of (in)action has an impact on the employer's operating hours and hence ability to conduct business, I believe the employer should also have the right to terminate* or refuse to hire this person. 

@Hammer Smokin' got it nailed on though, it's a free market where employees can choose their employers and vice versa. 

*termination is a tricky one because it may not be legal to terminate an employee for a medical reason, much like how it is illegal to terminate a woman because she got pregnant. In HK, some establishments have stated that non-vaccinated employees will be exempt from discretionary bonuses and promotions. 

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5 hours ago, Duxnutz said:

Yes. I believe they can. My employer just came out and gave us til Sept to get vaccinated. People kicking up a fuss but I highly doubt anyone would be willing to throw away their job over it. 

Travel industry related field - Airlines.

Yes, they should and I understand it.

Airlines asking for vacc certificate from their passengers and not from their staff/crews ...  ??
that would be too stupid.

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8 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

I see.  I guess I don't consider mass population events like concerts or sporting venues the same as I would an every day shop or restaurant.  And there might be a business or 2 around the area that might start requiring a vaccine card for service but it certainly isn't widespread at all...not yet at least.  As I said, it's not something I've experienced. 

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Here's a related question for travelers.

United Airlines is the only major carrier at this point to mandate vaccinations for their employees. Neither Southwest, American, nor Delta are mandating, only strongly suggesting. If there are two carriers with flights into your destination, would you  choose United because of their mandate even if the ticket were more expensive? Would you choose one of the other carriers because they don't mandate, if the United fare was cheaper?

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If you're talking about the US, this is a moot point as they technically already do. If your employer can mandate you're not allowed to be a tobacco user, then they can mandate that you must be vaccinated.

As far as Canada goes: Absolutely yes. But only healthcare providers are going to mandate it. 

As far as whether the decision should be left to employers; Absolutely not. Governments around the world have been passing the buck on responsibility. Governments absolutely should be setting up vaccinate mandates for things like large indoor gatherings, plane travel, etc. Those are the easiest vectors for transmission, and certain people have taken a hard line stance against getting vaccinated.

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11 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

 

Happening all across North America right now. Businesses requiring their customers being double vaxx'd. (surprisingly enough, more so in the USA than Canada, which I would have never guessed)

That's easy to explain. Vaccine and virus denial was politicized in the US, not so much in Canada. As a result bad consumer behavior directed at employees was much, much worse in the US than in Canada. It took Alberta just under 3 months to go from unvaccinated to over 70% single jab vaccinated, so it's clear the average person up here is much more accepting than down there.

  

11 hours ago, BellevilleMXZ said:

 In Ontario, we have required for years that school aged kids get vaxed for various things, or you can't go. I don't see how this is different.

It's the same way for much of the US as well as I understand it, I think people just like to ignore what's in front of their face. Try sending a kid with chickenpox to a public school and see what happens.

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