If you were to make a hail mary purchase on this one, what would you reasonably pay?

[El Presidente]

I suspect from the 1970's. 

Box looks in remarkably good condition. 

No provenance given. Storage unknown. 

Assume vendor non communicative with minimal history. 

Box is sealed. No refunds. 

 

What would you reasonably pay understanding the risks involved. 

 

 

from CCW

 

The box in question:

 

 

 

[Bijan]

$200. Bad odds on the cigars being good.

[Bri Fi]

Based on the info, sounds like the risks outweigh the rewards. 

[Skeng Don]

Based on the box. It looks too good to not have at least a storage report  
$150-200. 
could be mold land in there 

or a beetle  hotel 

 

 

 

[99call]

18 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

What would you reasonably pay understanding the risks involved. 

I love questions of value, especially about cigars, 

What are they worth now sealed sourced from the dark web with non existent prov ???????   £300

What are they worth if you open them and they are all in good condition with present aroma      ??????     £650

What are they worth if they get bought by a respected collector, and are now part of their collection  ??????   £1000

What are they worth for a newbe to buy smoke and to realise all the glisters is not gold, they are terrible???????     invaluable

What are they worth for a newbe to buy smoke and to realise these cigars gave them the best cigar experience they ever had ?????    Invaluable. 

There are also questions of worth about social history, not as a thing to smoke, but as the fabric of history,   collectors collect for all different reasons. 

I find it endlessly fascinating. 

 

[Hammer Smokin']

with the potential, I suspect there will be people more than willing to pay $20 +/- per cigar. I'd say $500 would be rather easily achievable. 

[Woody Hayes]

Rick Harrison from Pawn Stars.....I can't do more than $5.00 and I'm taking a huge risk here.

[Cigar Surgeon]

[NSXCIGAR]

This is an extremely rare cigar. Along with the RyJ CF the only Britanicas to ever be in regular production post-Rev. I've wondered for years whether this cigar ever actually existed. This is the first evidence I've ever seen that it did.

The box looks genuine, and the condition is remarkable. This cigar is so esoteric I doubt anyone would fake a box. No one would have any idea what the value of these would be. In good condition and with solid provenance these could be worth several thousand dollars. Unfortunately, the rarity of this box might hurt its value. I don't think many realize how rare this cigar is--even very knowledgeable collectors. 

That said, a sealed box with no provenance, no storage history and no seller info would turn this in to what I would consider a novelty box only--cigars inconsequential. Given it's condition, age, uniqueness and rarity I would probably pay $100-200 to add this box to my collection. Personally, I might be willing to pay a little more as I have a unique understanding of what these represent but these cigars would never be smoked. 

[99call]

4 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

No one would have any idea what the value of these would be

A box sold in 2018 for £1410

https://www.onlinecigarauctions.com/sold_lot_info.php?products_id=4608

[Chas.Alpha]

2 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

This is an extremely rare cigar. Along with the RyJ CF the only Britanicas to ever be in regular production post-Rev. I've wondered for years whether this cigar ever actually existed. This is the first evidence I've ever seen that it did.

Agreed. Not a box I would expect to be counterfeit. I don't know the old S.A. stamps, but someone with that knowledge can chime in. My advice to the seller would be to open them carefully, photograph them. Unopened only deflates the value, from my perspective...

[Hammer Smokin']

2 minutes ago, 99call said:

A box sold in 2018 for £1410

https://www.onlinecigarauctions.com/sold_lot_info.php?products_id=4608

now there's the price I've come to expect with Cuban cigars. 

[NSXCIGAR]

8 minutes ago, 99call said:

A box sold in 2018 for £1410

https://www.onlinecigarauctions.com/sold_lot_info.php?products_id=4608

Wow, I hadn't seen that. I also found a partial box:

https://www.onlinecigarauctions.com/lot-433-hoyo-monterrey-obsequios-p-10421.html

I'm trying to see if I may have meant the Odeon. Interestingly, most of the Hoyos cut in the 1970s are extremely rare. Odeon, Obsequios, Jeanne D'Arc, Opera, Versailles, Generes de Gener, Gracielas, Perfectos and Petit Hoyo are all very, very rare. Of those I've only been able to confirm the existence of the Obsequios. 

6 minutes ago, Chas.Alpha said:

My advice to the seller would be to open them carefully, photograph them.

According to the OP, that's not possible. Mystery seller is part of the issue here.

[Chas.Alpha]

1 minute ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Wow, I hadn't seen that. I also found a partial box:

https://www.onlinecigarauctions.com/lot-433-hoyo-monterrey-obsequios-p-10421.html

According to the OP, that's not possible. Mystery seller is part of the issue here.

Then my offer would be $600. My wife easily spends $600/month on things we don't need and will never use. At least this has a slim chance of panning out! 😳

[mrmessy]

$50. About all that I would be willing to throw away on a long shot bet.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[teamrandr]

$300 unopened and that would be rolling the dice.  They could be in awful shape or really nice. The value is definitely in what lies inside.

[99call]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Petit Hoyo

Heres your Petit Hoyo.   A bit smashed but they exist.   I've seen a box of Versailles somewhere to,  I'll try and dig it up

 

 

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Perfectos

 

 

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Generes de Gener

 

[Bijan]

Here's a video review of the Generes de Gener:

 

[NSXCIGAR]

I was thinking I had been aware of the Generes de Gener but I had not seen the Perfectos or Petit Hoyo. Nice finds @99call

Still very few examples of any of these exist. One would assume there would be more out there. 

I'm pretty sure again I've never seen Odeon, Opera, Gracielas, Jeanne D'Arc or Versailles. The ones that do exist in this era are so rare that I still believe it's possible none of them ever existed. 

[99call]

2 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Still very few examples of any of these exist.

Having had a quick look through Orientaprecios,   Generes de Gener, Perfectos, Obsequios  were fairly common (in Spain at least)    Stuff like Superfinos, Medio Hoyos, Less common again.   no hits so far for 

6 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Odeon, Opera, Gracielas, Jeanne D'Arc or Versailles

But, I don't think that means they do not exist.   I've just seen a huge swath of Hoyo names I've never ever heard of.   'Hoyo Jazmines' 'Hoyo Magnificos' etc etc it's never ending

[Bijan]

7 minutes ago, 99call said:

But, I don't think that means they do not exist.   I've just seen a huge swath of Hoyo names I've never ever heard of.   'Hoyo Jazmines' 'Hoyo Magnificos' etc etc it's never ending

I'm not an expert but there seems to be a difference between pre-revolution and immediately after the revolution and later on. I think at least in some cases Min Ron Nee got his info from catalogs or other documents that had non-existant or long gone cigars in them and that info then got onto CCW.

Edit:

If any are aprocryphal it would be the 3 or 4 hoyos that only came in cajons of 100 and were only discontinued in the 1980s. Whereas every other hoyo had their cajons of 100 discontinued pre 1960s.

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

Having had a quick look through Orientaprecios,   Generes de Gener, Perfectos, Obsequios  were fairly common (in Spain at least)    Stuff like Superfinos, Medio Hoyos, Less common again.   no hits so far for 

But, I don't think that means they do not exist.   I've just seen a huge swath of Hoyo names I've never ever heard of.   'Hoyo Jazmines' 'Hoyo Magnificos' etc etc it's never ending

Im not sure how common they were based on how rare they seem to be. Surely if they had been around anywhere close to the 1980s when MRN states they were cut they'd be far more prevalent than they seem to be. By the 1970s they may have been all but gone and the existing boxes of all these may be no later than 1960s or whatever was still in stock post-Rev. 

And of course, they all may have existed. But seeing as how MRN has no images or memory of it and I can find no images or auctions it's possible that if they did exist they were gone before the Rev or immediately following. Usually Rius has something to say about it but nothing here, only confirming when they were formally dropped from the catalogs. Obviously Rius would know that. And MRN often notates when a cigar may only have existed on paper but doesn't in this case.  

[Fuzz]

 

[El Presidente]

...but if you found he had other sealed boxes to sell.....would that change your mind?

 

[El Presidente]

..and another