Peeling, brittle wrappers

[smbauerllc]

Anyone else almost always have a problem with aged Cigars, even stored for long periods at 65% rh, have badly peeling, brittle wrappers?

 

At 65% I really don't understand why it happens so frequently.

 

Just cut a 2008 ER and the wrapper peeled badly immediately and was difficult to repair with glue as the wrapper was extremely brittle.

 

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[Ciscojohansson]

I think lower humidity helps older cigars (the humifity destroyes the wrapper) and then running the cigar under the tap before smoking. 

[Bijan]

I second the recommendation to run the cigar under the tap (especially the head but the rest of the wrapper too especially if 10 years+).

Other than that punch cut is often easier on the wrapper if you do it gently.

[smbauerllc]

6 hours ago, Bijan said:

I second the recommendation to run the cigar under the tap (especially the head but the rest of the wrapper too especially if 10 years+).
Other than that punch cut is often easier on the wrapper if you do it gently.

Will definitely try both with the next one if I can remember (have permanent, severe memory damage from a medication I take)

I do have a punch I have never tried because I kind of forgot I had it until now

 

Just passed the halfway point smoking it, and it hasn't peeled, cracked or flaked any more, but I have been handling it extremely gently.

Very glad it turned out ok when smoking. Would hate to have such a rare treat of a cigar be ruined. I have a total of only 7 ER's, and have only smoked 3 others total. 2 of which I bought 2 of so still have one of each, and an LFdC Paises Bajos that was probably the best Cigar I have ever smoked.

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[rcarlson]

My experience has been the exact opposite.  

[smbauerllc]

My experience has been the exact opposite.  

Interesting.

This is the only ER I have had trouble with, but it has happened a few times with regular 10+ year old cc's

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[benfica_77]

3 minutes ago, therealrsr said:

@Ciscojohansson and/or @Bijan  Really?  Literally under the running tap?  I have doctored some dry wrappers with a damp paper towel or rag, but the recommendation from you two blew my mind.  I am not doubting, just would have never considered that a viable option.  TIL

It'a a thing....

 

 

[smbauerllc]

From running butts under the tap to soften it up enough to peel of some wrapper for a patch, I'll say it takes a minute to get wet and soft, so I'm sure running it under for just a few seconds would likely help without getting too wet and affecting the burn

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[Enduin]

57 minutes ago, therealrsr said:

@Ciscojohansson and/or @Bijan  Really?  Literally under the running tap?  I have doctored some dry wrappers with a damp paper towel or rag, but the recommendation from you two blew my mind.  I am not doubting, just would have never considered that a viable option.  TIL

I actually started doing it too a while ago because it pretty much eliminates the chances of a cracked wrapper when using a straight cut. I run the cigar head for a couple of seconds under a gentle stream of water from my reverse osmosis filter, then gently dab it with a paper towel and proceed to cut. Works great and zero downsides.

[Bijan]

1 hour ago, therealrsr said:

@Ciscojohansson and/or @Bijan  Really?  Literally under the running tap?  I have doctored some dry wrappers with a damp paper towel or rag, but the recommendation from you two blew my mind.  I am not doubting, just would have never considered that a viable option.  TIL

Yes. I run the water on low pressure, usually a bit longer at the head and a bit less on the rest avoiding the foot, but I've seen people run the water pretty high/fast.

[LLC]

I keep a long term aging humidor where it is currently 63f and 64rh. Temperature and rh  are normally 1-2 lower in the cold part of winter but that’s about as much fluctuation I’ll see during the year. I’ve had lot of old cigars from that humidor and never had a wrapper issue or felt any need to run the cigars under water. 
What ever works for you or anyone else is good. This is just my experience. 

[smbauerllc]

I keep a long term aging humidor where it is currently 63f and 64rh. Temperature and rh  are normally 1-2 lower in the cold part of winter but that’s about as much fluctuation I’ll see during the year. I’ve had lot of old cigars from that humidor and never had a wrapper issue or felt any need to run the cigars under water. 
What ever works for you or anyone else is good. This is just my experience. 

Thus why i don't get why it happens with many of my 10+ year old smokes, aged and on rare occasion, young, at 65%

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[LLC]

1 hour ago, smbauerllc said:

Thus why i don't get why it happens with all my smokes, aged and young, at 65%

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Unless your temperature is a lot different I think you could eliminate storage as the problem. What else could it be then? Source, weather conditions when your smoking, squeezing the cigar too hard while your smoking it, hygrometer way off.

Strange but hopefully you can sort it out.  

[Bijan]

7 hours ago, LLC said:

I keep a long term aging humidor where it is currently 63f and 64rh. Temperature and rh  are normally 1-2 lower in the cold part of winter but that’s about as much fluctuation I’ll see during the year. I’ve had lot of old cigars from that humidor and never had a wrapper issue or felt any need to run the cigars under water. 
What ever works for you or anyone else is good. This is just my experience. 

I don't think I've aged a cigar past 5 years yet myself but brittle wrappers are pretty common when I have gotten vintage cigars from other BOTLs or bought them from vendors. I trust their storage but don't know the details.

[Meklown]

12 hours ago, Enduin said:

 reverse osmosis filter

so basically you pee on your cigar before smoking? nice. 

I don't water my cigars but have tried dipping in a cup of water (many experiments happened here before) and no completely no issue. Some claim they taste better even.

[Fox Sterlingworth]

Done the quick faucet rinse and quite honestly would have rather dealt with a split/crack than the burn issues I had from the water.

[Bijan]

26 minutes ago, Fox Sterlingworth said:

Done the quick faucet rinse and quite honestly would have rather dealt with a split/crack than the burn issues I had from the water.

I generally haven't noticed any change in burn, as long as the water is soaked up by the wrapper.

Otherwise you can just wet the head and punch the head can't possibly affect the burn that way.

[Fox Sterlingworth]

True on just wetting the head, but I’d probably just give it a lick before cutting anyhow.  
 

I’ve tried the water method a few times and even after a paper towel pat down I still encountered far more tunneling issues than normal.

[smbauerllc]

10 hours ago, LLC said:

Unless your temperature is a lot different I think you could eliminate storage as the problem. What else could it be then? Source, weather conditions when your smoking, squeezing the cigar too hard while your smoking it, hygrometer way off.
Strange but hopefully you can sort it out.  

Temp is pretty stable at 68deg year round.

As for sources, I can't speak of their storage conditions, but would assume they are fine, as that's day one of cigar smoking, plus i have had them for 6+ months, so the wrapper should have rehydrated by now if that was the problem.

For weather conditions some were smoked in a climate controlled environment , some were not, and when this happens, it always starts to happen immediately before even going to the smoking area and may or may not continue while smoking.

Really don't think I'm handling them too rough as this doesn't happen with smokes under 10 years old, plus I'm just always gentle with any Cigars, as some wrappers are thinner and more fragile than others depending on type.

Plus, most of the wrapper damage happened immediately after cutting, with a nice, new, sharp Colibri, which made an easy, good looking cut, and I didn't cut above the cap as I have done the trick of laying the cutter on a flat surface and then inserting and cutting the cigar, which has eliminated the occasional cut past the cap since I learned this trick and started doing it.

While smoking I was extra gentle and had no further damage occur. While smoking and when butting it out, the Cigar showed no signs of being too dry, except the wrapper.

Also, although I have had only a few nc's with this much age, only cc's seem to have problems.

I'm just really at a loss on why the wrappers are often so dry and brittle seeming, when they have had 6+ months at 65% to be well hydrated, and logically the wrapper should rehydrate first and fastest and the filler and binder never seem to be dry or brittle from examining some after putting them out (and they aren't smoking unusually fast or hot, and burn is typically reasonably even).

Had it happen again yesterday with a 2003 cc as well, although not as bad, yet the last one from the same box just about a week ago had no issues at all, adding to the oddness.

13 hours ago, LLC said:

I keep a long term aging humidor where it is currently 63f and 64rh. Temperature and rh  are normally 1-2 lower in the cold part of winter but that’s about as much fluctuation I’ll see during the year. I’ve had lot of old cigars from that humidor and never had a wrapper issue or felt any need to run the cigars under water. 
What ever works for you or anyone else is good. This is just my experience. 

Same with me.

I'm in a climate controlled room inside a climate controlled facility and temperature and rh never vary more than 1 to 2 points year round and typically dont vary at all as I have significantly more bovedas than needed for the sizes of the rubber gasketed tupperdoors and number of Cigars, so even after opening, they are back to 65% within 5 minutes tops.

Hygrometers are/were tested every few months at several different rh's, and have always been spot on still.

In fact, the room temperature, tupperdoors and bovedas have earned my trust enough from a couple years of use and testing, that I don't even have hygrometers in any tupperdoors anymore except the one for ER's and EL's, (which is the tupperdor this one came from) and the big one for boxes.

6 hours ago, Bijan said:

I don't think I've aged a cigar past 5 years yet myself but brittle wrappers are pretty common when I have gotten vintage cigars from other BOTLs or bought them from vendors. I trust their storage but don't know the details.

Exactly the same here.

Has happened with ones from other members as well as from trusted vendors both, so I don't think its a storage issue. Way too many people and vendors would have to have poor conditions for this to be the cause.

2 hours ago, Fox Sterlingworth said:

Done the quick faucet rinse and quite honestly would have rather dealt with a split/crack than the burn issues I had from the water.

This is my concern as well, but I do know from personal experience that it takes longer than you would think to get them very wet, so running them under very briefly shouldn't cause any problems I would think.

Will try it on the next older smoke I grab, after a gentle squeeze to hear if the wrapper crackles, indicating that it is dry/brittle


 

[Enduin]

5 hours ago, Meklown said:

so basically you pee on your cigar before smoking? nice. 

I don't water my cigars but have tried dipping in a cup of water (many experiments happened here before) and no completely no issue. Some claim they taste better even.

LOL the RO filter is connected to the city water kitchen plumbing so no pee on my cigars! Yet I'm willing to be that someone somewhere in the world has tried that...

 

[smbauerllc]

LOL the RO filter is connected to the city water kitchen plumbing so no pee on my cigars! Yet I'm willing to be that someone somewhere in the world has tried that...
 

Hey, anything in a pinch...
Just like biting the end off when you don't have a cutter.

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[Digi]

35 minutes ago, smbauerllc said:

Hey, anything in a pinch...
Just like biting the end off when you don't have a cutter.

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I believe we covered that here: 

😅