From 2000 - 2021 the cigars that have changed the most in terms of flavour

[El Presidente]

From 2000 - 2021 the cigars that have changed the most in terms of flavour?

This thread was a member request in order to find out what they have missed out on. Fair question as for those of us who have been around for some time, we forget that many have only come into the hobby these last few years. 

 

I use the period 2000 - 2021 because many here have been around the cigar world through that two decade span. 

 

So......which  cigars  have changed the most in terms of flavour profile through that period?  We are talking production not ageing. 

 

[intense]

RyJ Churchill. In that time it changed two Times. Around 2000 it still was for me like dried Grass, it rememberd me on autumn flowers, foliage and cinnamon. Very nice and unique. Then, ~2005 it became simply disgusting; bitter, metallic and rough. In that time it wasn't Sold that well so, in my theory, the cubans decided to keep them for 13 years and Label them as aged then and sell the same crab for twice the price - worked for them. Then, around 2011 - 2012 they changed once again into the cherry sticks we know and love today. So, happy end for Churchill.. 😉

[mprach024]

Monte 2 changed in 07-08, as wrappers got darker the cocoa became more dominant.  They were much much more claro in wrapper shade back then.  They used to have great toast and honey notes instead of chocolate, but still with that Monte twang.  I don’t mind, love 2s but I do kinda crave the old ways now and then.

BBF used to be like drinking a cup of strong coffee with cream a teaspoon of sugar.  I don’t get the sweet cream notes anymore, much more on the coffee and the cream is more of a stout.  Again I still love these but for different reasons.  I again blame the much darker wrappers.
 

 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 11/11/2021 at 10:49 PM, intense said:

RyJ Churchill. In that time it changed two Times. Around 2000 it still was for me like dried Grass,

If you ever had one prior to 2000 it was again a totally different cigar. Very strong, straight tobacco. Along with the Monte 2, HU 2 and PSD4, were all considered "powerhouse" cigars. 

I completely agree it has undergone at least 2 radical changes since 2000 and was really terrible from about the mid-2000s until its last rebirth as a well-rounded under medium cherry & rosewater cigar around 2012-2014.

I would have to say that hands down Juan Lopez has changed the most since 2000 as a brand profile. I'm not counting Vegueros which of course is now nothing like the old Vegueros. 

As far as individual cigars, RyJ Churchills & Ex 4 and HU Connie 1 are the first that come to mind for me. I could maybe throw in Monte 2 just because it seemed to be all over the place all the time over the last 20 years. I believe it's been as consistent as it's ever been since around 2018 and to me now tastes like the 1,3 and 4 in a Piramides. Which is fine I suppose, but the No. 2 had always been different than the others--very mystical. It was always it's own animal, for better or worse. Now it's kind of just fallen in line.

[Bijan]

46 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

. I believe it's been as consistent as it's ever been since around 2018 and to me now tastes like the 1,3 and 4 in a Piramides. Which is fine I suppose, but the No. 2 had always been different than the others--very mystical. It was always it's own animal, for better or worse. Now it's kind of just fallen in line.

I agree with all the rest but I still think the 2 and 5 are different than the 1, 3 and 4. A bit punchier with some spice to them.

I still see a division between people who prefer the 2 and 5 and those that prefer the 1, 3 and 4.

Though it may be that perceptions have not kept up with the new reality.

[Wookie]

Mid to late 1990s RyJ Churchill was my favorite cigar…full bodied, delicious. Couldn’t agree more with above comments about its death and rebirth. I also remember 90s bolivar as stronger with a real barnyard twang that doesn’t seem to exist anymore. And maybe it’s just me, but 90s cohiba used to have a distinct flavor that made them special and unique.  I don’t really detect that anymore. 

[CigarZen]

3 hours ago, Wookie said:

Mid to late 1990s RyJ Churchill was my favorite cigar…full bodied, delicious. Couldn’t agree more with above comments about its death and rebirth. I also remember 90s bolivar as stronger with a real barnyard twang that doesn’t seem to exist anymore. And maybe it’s just me, but 90s cohiba used to have a distinct flavor that made them special and unique.  I don’t really detect that anymore. 

Agreed on RyJ and Boli.  More recent Cohibas are much better than have been in a long while.  I think tobacco strains are different than 90s so probably gone forever 😢

[Wookie]

38 minutes ago, CigarZen said:

Agreed on RyJ and Boli.  More recent Cohibas are much better than have been in a long while.  I think tobacco strains are different than 90s so probably gone forever 😢

My latest box of esplendidos is 2016…some are good but mostly meh. Maybe I need to spring for a 2021 box. Thanks for heads up. 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 11/13/2021 at 7:29 PM, Bijan said:

I agree with all the rest but I still think the 2 and 5 are different than the 1, 3 and 4. A bit punchier with some spice to them.

5 is definitely the strongest and my favorite, and I haven't had a 2 in a year or so--maybe they're different recently. But the 18-20s I had were just like a fatter Monte 1/3/4. I would love it if they were punchier but that not what I got from 18, 19 and early 20 2s. 

 

On 11/14/2021 at 2:30 AM, Wookie said:

I also remember 90s bolivar as stronger with a real barnyard twang that doesn’t seem to exist anymore. And maybe it’s just me, but 90s cohiba used to have a distinct flavor that made them special and unique.

Well, if we're going back before 2000 all bets are off. Few things are the same. Let's put it this way--in the 90s my two favorite cigars by far were BRC and RyJ Ex 4. I haven't bought a box of either since 2003.

We're just talking after 2000 since the major changes in CCs occurred before 01. 

[Hoepssa]

 

Choix Supreme, and this brand is nearly get demolished by Habanos. 

[Bill Hayes]

I've found the Party D4 to lose some its trad Partagas profile. It's a bit smoother now with the edges taken off. Hard to describe the Partagas Cuban Twang. But I know it when I encounter. Was there with the SDC line , D4 and 898. Only encountered it lately with maybe shorts, presidente and a little in Pyramid. I would like to hear from those with 898 because Partagas was my fav. Now I hardly purchase. Thank god for the JL#2. I also think RASS are a touch more complex this year and the Monte 2 smoother and flavoursome. I also think that Bolivar PC and BBF are far more approachable now when young. Whether that's my palate, I'm not sure. Although, I don't think much would beat 2003 Cohiba Siglo VI and DC. Benchmark for me. I also think Trinidad Reyes have become more rustic and laking the complexity of when they first landed on the scene. Was my go to small format when you could smoke, drink and chat in bars and beer gardens. Sorry for being a negative Nelly. Still learning to evolve. I think Esplendidos have returned to form. And I also think Upmann has refined its flavour profile over different formats like the A but kept its roots with #2 and mag 46. I was never a fan of RYJ and must revisit. And interested to hear people's thoughts on Diplomatico and Punch Punch/PunchDC and SLR DC. 4 of my other favs in 2000's.

[Silverstix]

19 hours ago, Hoepssa said:

 

Choix Supreme

a flavor profile change in Choix Supreme for the better?