Ashes

[Webbo]

You have had some strange selection policies for a few years now when it comes to your openers, I thought that Renshaw and Khawaja were harshly treated. On a more depressing note its now 4000 days since we last won a test in Australia.

[Ken Gargett]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You have had some strange selection policies for a few years now when it comes to your openers, I thought that Renshaw and Khawaja were harshly treated. On a more depressing note its now 4000 days since we last won a test in Australia.

they do juggle them about. bancroft even got back in. not happy about that. warner untouchable but he does score runs. khawaja has an amazing record as an opener. getting a bit old now but so much better than harris. test cricket is beyond him. worst thing that could happen is bog average bowlers (no offence, england) allow him some runs and we get stuck with him.

henry hunt from south australia a prospect. bryce street from qld, slightly younger (just 23) and doing slightly better. my one huge complaint about him is his middle name is edward. go with that, son. E Street! think of all the puns and jokes. getting the band back together. 

renshaw is having a very good year and his test average is more than 20 higher than what harris averages against the poms (seriously, not even you blokes would pick harris, he is that bad). 

the problem has been that pukovski was earmarked (and then marked in the ear several times with balls causing concussions). who knows if he'll ever get back. if he does, he is most often compared to ponting. could do with another one of them. 

[Ken Gargett]

the most embarrassing statistic of this series?

it is not the 4,000 days. or the batting collapses etc.

harris, despite failing every time, has actually managed to improve his test batting average against england. so, did one of the truly worst averages in history for an opener from any country not give the selectors a clue that he should perhaps not be let near the team? 

for the record, he is averaging 12 this series, which brings his overall average up to 10. 

[JohnS]

The reason why Australia has gotten into sound positions in the first two tests, apart from the excellent performances of the likes of Warner, Labuschagne and Smith has been the way Travis Head has been able to capitilise on a solid total when coming to the wicket and taking the game away from the opposition. Picture this...he came out in the second innings at 4/55, what if he got out and the whole team capitulated for 80? England chasing 300 or so in the 2nd test would have been interesting, right?

I know I've said this before but by God they desperately need one more player (other than Dawid Malan and Joe Root) to set up a platform in Melbourne in the first innings for the likes of Jos Buttler and Chris Woakes, for example, to come in and get runs under much less pressure. As a fan of the game, I would like to see the contest more even, that's for sure.

[Ken Gargett]

4 minutes ago, JohnS said:

The reason why Australia has gotten into sound positions in the first two tests, apart from the excellent performances of the likes of Warner, Labuschagne and Smith has been the way Travis Head has been able to capitilise on a solid total when coming to the wicket and taking the game away from the opposition. Picture this...he came out in the second innings at 4/55, what if he got out and the whole team capitulated for 80? England chasing 300 or so in the 2nd test would have been interesting, right?

I know I've said this before but by God they desperately need one more player (other than Dawid Malan and Joe Root) to set up a platform in Melbourne in the first innings for the likes of Jos Buttler and Chris Woakes, for example, to come in and get runs under much less pressure. As a fan of the game, I would like to see the contest more even, that's for sure.

john, even if head had gone, marnus was still not out, plus green and carey and a fairly solid tail. they might have been in danger of folding for 80 if they were facing lillee and thommo or the top west indian line-up or warnie in full attack mode, but not against this attack. 

for me, head was more valuable for us in the first test. 

but they should have enforced the follow-on. 

[JohnS]

Sure, it's all hypothetical anyway; however, we saw a very different batting performance overall last summer when Australia didn't have anyone supporting Labuschagne, Smith and Warner was injured.

Personally, I wish England came last year and India were playing this Australian team this year. I think things would have been a lot more interesting!

[Ken Gargett]

35 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Sure, it's all hypothetical anyway; however, we saw a very different batting performance overall last summer when Australia didn't have anyone supporting Labuschagne, Smith and Warner was injured.

Personally, I wish England came last year and India were playing this Australian team this year. I think things would have been a lot more interesting!

john, fully follow what you say. but the close contest thing. yes, i fully support the concept and in practice, love to see it. in all things bar playing the ashes (and theoretically the bledisloe but fat chance of that happening - and origin, of course). in those few cases, bugger close contests. worry about that next year. i want 5-0 and each one by an innings. was listening to someone bang on about close contests before 05. a mate and i shook our heads and said that these things eventually turn. take the big wins now.

so bugger the close contest. i want 5-0 and the last three by an innings. i'll enjoy close contests against other countries. 

[99call]

I'm not a massive cricket fan in anyway shape or form..........when it's hot.....it's red hot.......but what a bloody waste it is when a specific team just doesn't turn up for one of the big events on the sporting calendar.  It doesn't matter who it is but so bloody depressing when stuff like this is a damp squib.

The biggest buzz kill is that it actually robs the winning team of feeling like righteous victors.......they just think "ah well!!? what a push over....NEXT!!"

Having watched "The Test" it's so easy to see that the Aussie team are a team forged out of disgrace.....tough times....and hard fought victories.   I think it serves as a pretty straightforward blue print as the path forward for the England Squad. i.e. teamwork, selection, grit, youth etc etc 

[Ken Gargett]

7 minutes ago, 99call said:

I'm not a massive cricket fan in anyway shape or form..........when it's hot.....it's red hot.......but what a bloody waste it is when a specific team just doesn't turn up for one of the big events on the sporting calendar.  It doesn't matter who it is but so bloody depressing when stuff like this is a damp squib.

The biggest buzz kill is that it actually robs the winning team of feeling like righteous victors.......they just think "ah well!!? what a push over....NEXT!!"

Having watched "The Test" it's so easy to see that the Aussie team are a team forged out of disgrace.....tough times....and hard fought victories.   I think it serves as a pretty straightforward blue print as the path forward for the England Squad. i.e. teamwork, selection, grit, youth etc etc 

now here we have a man who does not understand the psyche of an aussie cricket fan (and i suspect also that of a committed english fan). we all talk about wanting to see a good close contest. what a crock. sure, a good contest if we are playing south africa or india but england? no way. grind them to dust. foot on the throat and never let it go. like all things, periods of superiority come and go. they have had it over us in the past. as much as i hated it, if i had felt that they were not trying to drive us into mincemeat, i would have hated that more. i never want their pity. they don't want mine. 

i want 5-0 for this series. and i want the last three to be by an innings. aside from the necessity of thrashing the old enemy, these days there are points for the world test championship involved. also, the more we crush them, the worse shape they will be in when we tour there in a couple of years. 

no. i do not want this close. does anyone want a close origin match? no. i want nsw weeping. arsenal v manspew? i want them embarrassed. washington v dallas (and this is a tender one as they are about to take the field and i fear it will not go well). i want them utterly thrashed. 

definitely not 'NEXT'. definitely more of the same!! i cannot get enough. i'd make it a 30 match series if i could. 

[99call]

8 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

what a crock. sure, a good contest if we are playing south africa or india but england? no way

You're correct Ken.  I'm Welsh, so find myself in that very unusual position, where i'm supporting the occasional Welsh player (Simon Jones etc) who has nowhere else to go, if they want to be on the international stage.     I've been to the Ashes twice (and loved it) and can bring myself to support England to a degree as I see it as more of a British team in self denial.  (never in football or rugby....this goes without saying)

I get what you are saying, but all said you are kidding yourself if you're saying you enjoy this, the same as you would beating a shit hot England team.    I 100% understand that you are saying every victory needs to be enjoyed, respected, even gloated over,  but there has to be a measure of success.  

All a will say is there is a vast difference in embarrassing your opposition, and them quite happily embarrassing themselves.  In watching these tests I have no idea how good Australia are, and how shit England are,  that should be recognised as a problem for both teams........one obviously more so than the other.    

[Ken Gargett]

18 minutes ago, 99call said:

You're correct Ken.  I'm Welsh, so find myself in that very unusual position, where i'm supporting the occasional Welsh player (Simon Jones etc) who has nowhere else to go, if they want to be on the international stage.     I've been to the Ashes twice (and loved it) and can bring myself to support England to a degree as I see it as more of a British team in self denial.  (never in football or rugby....this goes without saying)

I get what you are saying, but all said you are kidding yourself if you're saying you enjoy this, the same as you would beating a shit hot England team.    I 100% understand that you are saying every victory needs to be enjoyed, respected, even gloated over,  but there has to be a measure of success.  

All a will say is there is a vast difference in embarrassing your opposition, and them quite happily embarrassing themselves.  In watching these tests I have no idea how good Australia are, and how shit England are,  that should be recognised as a problem for both teams........one obviously more so than the other.    

there is perhaps a marginal degree in what you say but i suspect that comes more post match/series. at the moment, i am absolutely loving it. the Ashes is unique. brings out a different mindset. sure, a close contest with other teams but this has gone on too long, we have copped our share of floggings and humiliations, for me not to absolutely love it.

i worked in london during the Ashes series 86/87 i think, where they beat us thoroughly. every single day i had dozens of poms stick their heads in to the office in the law firm to gloat and rub it in. most of them i never met before or after.

when england won the rugby in 03, large groups of them would share the email addresses of any aussie they knew. so you would get these grubby gloating emails from complete strangers. 

so no, i am absolutely loving this and i want 5-0 and these last three by an innings. if given the choice of that and an english revival where they win the next two but then we win the fifth to win the series, i will take 5-0 every day of the week and twice on sunday! it is not close. 

[Webbo]

11 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

there is perhaps a marginal degree in what you say but i suspect that comes more post match/series. at the moment, i am absolutely loving it. the Ashes is unique. brings out a different mindset. sure, a close contest with other teams but this has gone on too long, we have copped our share of floggings and humiliations, for me not to absolutely love it.

i worked in london during the Ashes series 86/87 i think, where they beat us thoroughly. every single day i had dozens of poms stick their heads in to the office in the law firm to gloat and rub it in. most of them i never met before or after.

when england won the rugby in 03, large groups of them would share the email addresses of any aussie they knew. so you would get these grubby gloating emails from complete strangers. 

so no, i am absolutely loving this and i want 5-0 and these last three by an innings. if given the choice of that and an english revival where they win the next two but then we win the fifth to win the series, i will take 5-0 every day of the week and twice on sunday! it is not close. 

Happiness is like air in a balloon, there is only so much available so if someone has a lot the other is being squeezed out. As an Englishman I am F*^%$@g hating this series.

[Ken Gargett]

9 hours ago, Webbo said:

Happiness is like air in a balloon, there is only so much available so if someone has a lot the other is being squeezed out. As an Englishman I am F*^%$@g hating this series.

webbo, not that i wish unhappiness on anyone but that is the fate of a sports fan. for everyone enjoying the contest, there is another hating it. 

it could be worse. imagine if you were living in australia and every day, had to go in to the firm where you worked with 400 locals, many of whom would line up at the door every single day to share their opinion on the inferiority of convict sporting teams (or the equivalent). no wonder, some people go postal! 

i'm old enough to remember the utter helplessness and feeling sick as a dog with botham and willis in 81. 86/87 of course. losing the ashes at home in 10/11. and anyone tells you that a close contest whatever the result is better than a 5-0 whitewash was not around for 05. 

i was at the rugby world cup final in 03. still shake my head at the injustice of flatley hitting the post and then the stupidity of rogers to put your blokes within range for the field goal. 

even yesterday, i went from the ashes to the ashes of the NFL - washington v dallas. and we got utterly humiliated. one of the worst losses in history. flogged like a dusty carpet. they were using us to practice trick plays and to give their 2nd and 3rd stringers experience. two of our stars ended up in a punch-up. not on the field, not with the opposition but with each other on the sideline. that is us for the season and now one realises that the last two years of rebuilding and working towards a goal have been an illusion. we are the same hopeless steaming mess of rubbish we have been for thirty years. as you said, it is the hope that kills you. 

so while i understand that the ashes is hurting some, i fully intend to revel in it and hope we get over the line today and then go on to 5-0. because i know that i have plenty more horror days of sport ahead. 

[Webbo]

33 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

webbo, not that i wish unhappiness on anyone but that is the fate of a sports fan. for everyone enjoying the contest, there is another hating it. 

it could be worse. imagine if you were living in australia and every day, had to go in to the firm where you worked with 400 locals, many of whom would line up at the door every single day to share their opinion on the inferiority of convict sporting teams (or the equivalent). no wonder, some people go postal! 

i'm old enough to remember the utter helplessness and feeling sick as a dog with botham and willis in 81. 86/87 of course. losing the ashes at home in 10/11. and anyone tells you that a close contest whatever the result is better than a 5-0 whitewash was not around for 05. 

i was at the rugby world cup final in 03. still shake my head at the injustice of flatley hitting the post and then the stupidity of rogers to put your blokes within range for the field goal. 

even yesterday, i went from the ashes to the ashes of the NFL - washington v dallas. and we got utterly humiliated. one of the worst losses in history. flogged like a dusty carpet. they were using us to practice trick plays and to give their 2nd and 3rd stringers experience. two of our stars ended up in a punch-up. not on the field, not with the opposition but with each other on the sideline. that is us for the season and now one realises that the last two years of rebuilding and working towards a goal have been an illusion. we are the same hopeless steaming mess of rubbish we have been for thirty years. as you said, it is the hope that kills you. 

so while i understand that the ashes is hurting some, i fully intend to revel in it and hope we get over the line today and then go on to 5-0. because i know that i have plenty more horror days of sport ahead. 

I can just about cope with us losing Ken (even to you lot as you as depressingly its clear you are the better side) but I simply can't accept the lack of application, determination and personal pride that this shower are displaying with the bat.  Just as bad is the selectors/management who have watched for the last 3 years the constant failings of the top order and done bugger all to change it. Our "openers" have managed 14 ducks in 26 tests this year the most ever before was 6! 

Finally guess who our third highest run scorer is in tests this year ........

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

I can just about cope with us losing Ken (even to you lot as you as depressingly its clear you are the better side) but I simply can't accept the lack of application, determination and personal pride that this shower are displaying with the bat.  Just as bad is the selectors/management who have watched for the last 3 years the constant failings of the top order and done bugger all to change it. Our "openers" have managed 14 ducks in 26 tests this year the most ever before was 6! 

Finally guess who our third highest run scorer is in tests this year ........

i was going to guess woakes but that is priceless. yes, it really hurts when it feels like you care more than the players. 

[Webbo]

On 12/21/2021 at 12:35 AM, Webbo said:

I thought that Renshaw and Khawaja were harshly treated

@Ken Gargett well depressingly at least I got this right....

[Ken Gargett]

11 hours ago, Webbo said:

@Ken Gargett well depressingly at least I got this right....

renshaw is probably still a fair bit off returning. moved to the middle order. no idea why. he'd have more chance at the top i think. 

always said khawaja should have been in somewhere. this southern push for harris is ridiculous. seems they are talking that khawaja will be dropped for the fifth test and harris keep his spot. what a farce. 

khawaja's first innings century was the innings of the series. wonderful knock. he is the most elegant batsman since gower. 

why we did not declare a bit earlier is beyond me. send carey out to face a single ball? someone lost the plot. 

today should tell if england has any fight left or not. no reason they can't out heads down and bat out a draw. 

[Ken Gargett]

if anyone doubted the intense passions that still exist, even if the series has been decided, you only had to watch that last session today. incredible stuff. anyone says test cricket is dead or that there is such a thing as a dead rubber, has no idea. seeing our blokes on the field, riding every ball. seeing the poms on the sideline unable to watch, stokes pulling his shirt over his head because he couldn't take the tension. brilliant stuff. 

the poms saved the test. can't complain. we stuffed our declaration and whereas in the early games, we took every chance, but this one, we missed 3-4 in the first innings and missed several today. the runout that carey fumbled when bairstow was about 2, dropping stokes before lunch. take those and this game is long over. smith dropping bairstow as well. carey also dropped hameed but, and i even feel a bit sorry for him, you just know that it won't be long before you get another crack. 

given the success of bairstow and crawley and broad (even anderson last test), the english selectors would be the ausies' best friend. what a monumental stuff up. beyond comprehension.

malan and root look like the pressure is finally telling. 

for us, if khawaja does not replace harris, might be a riot. but no guarantees. where did boland come from? extraordinary. 

carey started well but his form has really dropped off. dropped a number of chances, left others go, missed a crucial runout and the runs are not what anyone wanted. good to see green started to feel comfortable. still believe he could be a superstar for us. no allrounder has ever averaged 40 plus with the bat and under 30 with the ball. long way to go but he might. smith and marnus need some big scores in this last test.

looking forward to it. 

[Webbo]

Excellent test cricket. Its not possible for teams to keep such high standards in the field as Aus have held for all of this series so chances will go down eventually. I think a declaration an hour earlier would have been sensible but modern teams just don't seem to want to take any chances at all. 

From the very first test our selection has been clearly wrong for anyone to see, just dont understand it. I also did read somewhere that there is a question still over Khawaja for the last test, surely thats not true......

[Ken Gargett]

14 hours ago, Webbo said:

Excellent test cricket. Its not possible for teams to keep such high standards in the field as Aus have held for all of this series so chances will go down eventually. I think a declaration an hour earlier would have been sensible but modern teams just don't seem to want to take any chances at all. 

From the very first test our selection has been clearly wrong for anyone to see, just dont understand it. I also did read somewhere that there is a question still over Khawaja for the last test, surely thats not true......

you'd think there could be no doubt but you are not the only team to have wonky selectors at times.