Popular Post El Presidente Posted December 30, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2021 The forum should always aim to be centrist and that means having roughly the same number of people who think we are leftist leaning as those who believe we are right leaning...with most believing we are in the middle. From the poll we haven't quite achieved that. That is not a bad thing as it is something to work on or at least keep in mind. The question proposed does not need to be politically turbocharged. In most places it isn't. The question related to forum "discourse". discourse noun /ˈdɪskɔːs/ written or spoken communication or debate. Similar:discussion, conversation,talk,dialogue,communication,conference,debate,consultation,verbal exchange, We have had many vibrant discussions in 2021 on contentious subjects. Perhaps the most notable being the discussion on covid/vaccines. The thread which ran for months showed "discourse" is possible without political "taint". it doesn't come naturally for some but if we as a global society intend to "do better" then we had better find a way to discuss contentious issues without bringing jerseys/uniforms/flags to the table. The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notsocleaver Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Cuban cigars are an inherently conservative past time in the sense of valuing things like tradition, legacy and patience. Think about how much time this board spends longing for the good old days when cigars where they way they liked them. Every new 58rg release is a travesty and every discontinuation a heartbreak. These are all tendencies of the traditionalist part of the right. The left is excited about new things because it believes change will make things better. The best cigar is yet to be rolled! How can we know the latest Gurka 8x80 Fleur de Bite d'âne won't be any good unless you try it? See, its also a little anti-capitalist too. Not in the sense that Cuba is full of commies, because Habanos SA is absolutely profit driven no matter what the party line is. Rather, this board bemoans some of the pitfalls of capitalist profit seeking like over-production and advertising hype constantly. A full embrace of a neoliberal position would applaud selling Seco filled status symbols to China at insane mark ups, maybe with the cope that this would leave them with more money to make the cigars that we like too, but you really hear a take like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bijan Posted December 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Notsocleaver said: Gurka 8x80 Fleur de Bite d'âne Edit: bite d'âne = French for donkey dick 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Islandboy Posted December 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2021 $100 says that Rob’s $100 isn’t on wether the poll shows us to be Left, Centrist or Right, but rather wether a train wreck will ensue in the discussion that follows 😆 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, El Presidente said: The forum should always aim to be centrist and that means having roughly the same number of people who think we are leftist leaning as those who believe we are right leaning...with most believing we are in the middle. From the poll we haven't quite achieved that. That is not a bad thing as it is something to work on or at least keep in mind. Maybe a good ideal to strive for but probably not realistic. The forum almost certainly leans center-right. To convince as many people that it's left, as believe that it's right you'd have to crack down harder on the right and softer on the left. When really you only want to crack down on people who cross the line. And from my experience the line gets crossed more from the right and almost certainly because there are more people on the right not in any way that the people on the left, myself included are any more careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post El Presidente Posted December 30, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bijan said: Maybe a good ideal to strive for but probably not realistic. The forum almost certainly leans center-right. To convince as many people that it's left, as believe that it's right you'd have to crack down harder on the right and softer on the left. When really you only want to crack down on people who cross the line. And from my experience the line gets crossed more from the right and almost certainly because there are more people on the right not in any way that the people on the left, myself included are any more careful. No you don't Bijan. You only need to provide an environment where left, centre, right or martian feel comfortable posting. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhorn2 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Hell, I don't know my left from my right half the time! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, El Presidente said: No you don't Bijan. You only need to provide an environment where left, centre, right or martian feel comfortable posting. You've achieved that! At least 3 of us lefties on this thread But if you want equal number of people to think the forum is leaning left as right that's not the same thing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, Notsocleaver said: Every new 58rg release is a travesty and every discontinuation a heartbreak. These are all tendencies of the traditionalist part of the right. The left is excited about new things because it believes change will make things better. The best cigar is yet to be rolled! How can we know the latest Gurka 8x80 Fleur de Bite d'âne won't be any good unless you try it? See, its also a little anti-capitalist too. Not in the sense that Cuba is full of commies, because Habanos SA is absolutely profit driven no matter what the party line is. Rather, this board bemoans some of the pitfalls of capitalist profit seeking like over-production and advertising hype constantly. A full embrace of a neoliberal position would applaud selling Seco filled status symbols to China at insane mark ups, maybe with the cope that this would leave them with more money to make the cigars that we like too, but you really hear a take like that. i love the pigeon holing (and the topic does a good job of that as well). So there can be no left leaning members on social issues who also pine for the return of the Ramon Allones 898? So there can be no room for a fiscal conservative who is socially left on some issues? I love how we all try to put things in boxes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 Just now, Bijan said: But if you want equal number of people to think the forum is leaning left as right that's not the same thing to me. certainly not my intent. Perfect world would be perceived balance (regardless of actual member leanings). Left/right/center/martians....all welcome. However, no tossers or wankers 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichG Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 In my humble opinion the discourse here is kept mostly centrist based on the rules and moderation. I do feel that the moderation is more forgiving of those who toe the line slightly to the left, over those who stray right. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElJavi76 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, El Presidente said: I always have a chuckle how a % of US members can only look at a question through star spangled glasses. You do know there are 191 other countries So you're saying your dictionary is different? I mean I know English is my second language but still. The 3 words offered in the poll have one connotation. I think that's an English language thing, not an America thing. Discourse also has one accepted definition and that's, spoken communication or debate. Please don't make this about us poor Americans and how limited our world view is. You know me personally Rob... come on now! Also, I think you're a few shy on your country count even by the UN standards. We should strive to be more inclusive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 Just now, ElJavi76 said: . The 3 words offered in the poll have one connotation. agree to disagree. I am far more pluralist in the use of language. Just now, ElJavi76 said: Please don't make this about us poor Americans and how limited our world view is. You know me personally Rob... come on now! Tongue in cheek 1 minute ago, ElJavi76 said: Also, I think you're a few shy on your country count even by the UN standards. We should strive to be more inclusive. I may have forgotten South Sudan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99call Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, El Presidente said: Left/right/center/martians....all welcome. Thats not fair the 'right' and the 'martians' are on the same team! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 25 minutes ago, El Presidente said: Perfect world would be perceived balance (regardless of actual member leanings). To go out on a limb if the forum does in fact lean right and people perceive it to lean right and it's still functional and everyone enjoys participating then that's actually a win. The only time I hear people complaining about the way the forum leans left vs right is when the mods have to intervene one way or the other. Then people rage quit claiming fascism or socialism. If more people lean right overall and theres an equal chance a right person goes over the line as a left person then that probably means more mod policing on right posts. And all else being equal that should actually make people on the right think that the forum leans left since there's more policing on the right. Anyways since that's not the case I think it points to the fairness of the rules and of the policing. All that to say in too many words that left people will post left opinions and right people will post right opinions, within the confines of the rules, and that should be reflected in leanings of the discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ElJavi76 Posted December 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, El Presidente said: agree to disagree. I am far more pluralist in the use of language. I guess you can make words mean whatever you want. Just like I can self identify tomorrow as a Shiitake mushroom perhaps. If you look at some of the responses on this thread, others have taken the liberty to use words like commie and radical leftist. Throughout the year, politically charged discourse has been had (i.e. covid and vaccines). Just cause a subject isn't about party affiliation doesn't mean it didn't tie back to politics. So when I associate these terms with politics... I don't think I'm alone. Nor am I bending the English language. This Cuban refugee turned Naturalized American has to show a little face for my hosts... the great US of A 🇺🇸. I know you understand me Rob. I can certainly agree to disagree with you any day. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 Just now, ElJavi76 said: I guess you can make words mean whatever you want. Just like I can self identify tomorrow as a Shiitake mushroom perhaps. There are always alternative facts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notsocleaver Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, El Presidente said: i love the pigeon holing (and the topic does a good job of that as well). So there can be no left leaning members on social issues who also pine for the return of the Ramon Allones 898? So there can be no room for a fiscal conservative who is socially left on some issues? I love how we all try to put things in boxes "Hey, would you guys put this in a box for me?" Sure "lol, look at all these people trying to put things in boxes" 🙄 You've just moved the goal posts so far we aren't even playing the same game anymore. I don't think its unusual that people want some things to change and others to stay the same. That describes almost everyone. I have no doubt there are some dyed in the wool socialists who are 898 lovers, but you asked us to pigeon hole the general discourse of this forum into one of three boxes while also explicitly saying "This is not a question on politics but rather general discourse". The most common topic of discourse is cuban cigars, and on that topic, the most common sentiment is one the pines for the old days and applauds things that seem to mark a return to the old ways. Given the options, I'd code that sentiment as 'right' or 'conservative' or 'traditionalist'. I don't think that it is overwhelmingly so, and I think the board has been more positive about recent CC innovations than it was even a few years ago, so I guess you would say its on the right, moving leftwards. People came here for the cigar talk, this is the sample group that you are pulling the other opinions from, so I would expect other opinions to be slightly more conservative just on account of sampling bias, with the most extreme of the left wing most likely to be filtered out. That said, the idea of someone smoking Cuban cigars solely as a sign of solidarity their island comrades is a little amusing. If you're out there, speak up, I'd love to hear that take! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ryan Posted December 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 31, 2021 Left and Right is pretty simple. Either poor people are to blame or rich people. 3 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chas.Alpha Posted December 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 31, 2021 2 hours ago, El Presidente said: No you don't Bijan. You only need to provide an environment where left, centre, right or martian feel comfortable posting. I feel perfectly comfortable posting on FOH. I feel that I am a vested member ( i.e. Dee knows my CC number by heart) and generally try to keep my posts upbeat and humorous. The reception has been 100% positive! I am at the same time embarrassed that US politics is a forbidden subject, since the Aussies and the rest of the world don’t consider my fellow Americans reasonable enough to have civil discourse on the subject. Yes @Ken Gargett , I was permanently banned from Twitter for using the term “Orange Nazi.” I have to work tomorrow, but plan on burning the HUSW from the ‘19 Christmas sampler tomorrow night. I don’t care about anyone’s political views, I just care about whether the 2021 RASS were as good as the ‘19’s... Peace and love BOTH/SOTH! 🥂 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaclub Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 I thought we had to keep politics out of the forum Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas.Alpha Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 minute ago, havanaclub said: I thought we had to keep politics out of the forum Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Hey! You got a black monkey and I got a brown monkey! What gives?... 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaclub Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Hey! You got a black monkey and I got a brown monkey! What gives?... Am I missing something? What’s black or brown monkey? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas.Alpha Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Just now, havanaclub said: Am I missing something? What’s black or brown monkey? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk New icons for member/posting status. Yours is better than mine... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaclub Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 New icons for member/posting status. Yours is better than mine...Oh, I haven’t seen that. I am using Tapatalk. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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