How long we giving Trinidad?

[ChicagoRob]

5 hours ago, RichG said:

This is definitely an important point, that Trini doesn’t work for the Instagram crowd. Is Habanos so far removed from reality that they don’t understand this? Or do they expect the Asian markets to carry this wild increase.
I saw a vendor listing Fundies priced at $3700 and Reyes at $900 this evening. Absolute madness.

$3700… that is unbelievable.

[Ford2112]

5 hours ago, RichG said:

I saw a vendor listing Fundies priced at $3700 and Reyes at $900 this evening. Absolute madness.

LOL stick a fork in it.

[NSXCIGAR]

Hmm...$25 Reyes or $9 El Principe...

This has to be a temporary policy or you can indeed kiss Trini goodbye. They're way over their skis with this "repositioning."

It's going to be a long year gents. 

[liquid360]

I LOVE La Trova and I’ll smoke them for as long as I can get them.


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[BoliDan]

I'm kissing new production Trinis goodbye. Unless I find fundies for reasonable price, but I'm not going to hold my breath, they were tough enough to find before.

[JohnS]

On 5/19/2022 at 5:21 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

Hmm...$25 Reyes or $9 El Principe...

This has to be a temporary policy or you can indeed kiss Trini goodbye. They're way over their skis with this "repositioning."

It's going to be a long year gents. 

When the increase is highlighted by putting up this type of comparison, in bold, then it's not really a comparison. You can't help but feel that the Trinidad Reyes (and by extension the Cohiba Siglo I) will fast become a curious anomaly.

[Bijan]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:28 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

As I've said, I love Trini as much as the next guy but quite frankly the cigars aren't good enough to command that kind of money. Cohiba is a step up and can deliver something the other marcas cannot even if you want to call that quality "different" instead of "better." 

In my experience Cohiba are different but Trinidad are better.

That is to say somehow Trinidad is better  constructed and the flavours are consistently good. I don't think I'm as happy with a quarter of the Monte Cristo I smoke as almost all the Trinidad I smoke. And I smoke more monte.

Cohiba is unique but construction is about as bad as any other CC, possibly even worse than the average (RyJ Churchill's excepted).

[NSXCIGAR]

46 minutes ago, Bijan said:

In my experience Cohiba are different but Trinidad are better.

That is to say somehow Trinidad is better  constructed and the flavours are consistently good. I don't think I'm as happy with a quarter of the Monte Cristo I smoke as almost all the Trinidad I smoke. And I smoke more monte.

Cohiba is unique but construction is about as bad as any other CC, possibly even worse than the average (RyJ Churchill's excepted).

There's always going to be personal preference. As far as the comparison to Monte, I agree with the traditional pricing that has both Monte and Trini at a bit of a premium--maybe 10%. I see them as equally high in quality and universal appeal in terms of profile. But Trini has always been just one of many cigars in my rotation. In other words if money was no object I would smoke no more Trini than I already do. But if money were no object I would certainly smoke more Cohiba than I currently do. 

I also agree that Cohiba construction is in no way superior to any other brand. That really hasn't been too much of an issue for most folks up until now, but I think if they want to start selling Siglo II for $1,000 it would behoove them to start picking up the slack in that area. I've smoked only one BHK--a 54--and construction was less than ideal which just is flat-out nonsense. 

[Bijan]

40 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

There's always going to be personal preference. As far as the comparison to Monte, I agree with the traditional pricing that has both Monte and Trini at a bit of a premium--maybe 10%. I see them as equally high in quality and universal appeal in terms of profile. But Trini has always been just one of many cigars in my rotation. In other words if money was no object I would smoke no more Trini than I already do. But if money were no object I would certainly smoke more Cohiba than I currently do. 

If coloniales and monte 4 on the one hand and Reyes and monte 5 on the other were the same price I would smoke way more of the Trinidad ones.

Right now I smoke more of the Monte ones. Because already before this crazy hike there was already, in practice, a 50% premium on Trinidad over Monte.

I sort of agree on smoking Cohiba, some of the best cigars I've had were Cohibas but I feel like I'm chasing a dragon. Not a sure thing at all.

If we got the cigars without bands and packaging I think the Trinidads would beat the Cohibas.

Also if you didn't know Cohibas were THE premium cigars, then the packaging on the Trinidads is nicer (minus the fancy holograms Cohiba bands).

I really do think Trinidad especially with the new releases is one of the only cases where Cuba delivered a higher quality premium product.

All that said I am not the biggest Trinidad fan, nor do I smoke them that often, but to me they are definitely nice cigars.

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

If coloniales and monte 4 on the one hand and Reyes and monte 5 on the other were the same price I would smoke way more of the Trinidad ones.

I would still have to put the Montes on par. I enjoy Monte 3/4/5 as much as a Coloniales and Reyes, but I enjoy the change of pace. I enjoy a Monte DE just as much as a Esmeralda/Topes, but again it's a how-am-I-feeling-at-the-moment decision. 

If the Trini profile appeals to you more I can't argue with that. To me it's never been exceptional. I like the San Cristobal or Connie 1/2 or Famosos profile just as much. 

I feel for anyone that is a Trini lover. I see no reason the brand should be doubled in price. 

[Bijan]

13 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

If the Trini profile appeals to you more I can't argue with that. To me it's never been exceptional.

It's not the profile. Or not just the profile.

As I said Trinidad quality is as much about consistency and construction as much as flavour and profile.

I enjoy a sweet chocolate monte as much as a sweet donut Trinidad. The batting average of monte 4 and 5 is nowhere near that of Reyes and coloniales.

Monte especiales, double Edmundo, etc do compare more favourably though.

But if half of a box of monte 4 smokes really well I am happy. Whereas Trinidad is as consistent as CCs get.

Trinidad is like the opposite of an RyJ Churchill. I like that profile too but construction is often atrocious on those.

[Shaunster]

I've never found the construction of Trinidad to be ahead of Monte myself.

[NSXCIGAR]

37 minutes ago, Bijan said:

But if half of a box of monte 4 smokes really well I am happy. Whereas Trinidad is as consistent as CCs get.

Haven't really noticed this but I guess I'll have to start paying more attention. I've had plenty of wonky Trinis. In fact I had a ML the other day that I recall specifically didn't burn that great.

[Lunettesman]

For me, Trinidad in general and particularly the vigia is one of the best cigar construction wise. I don't remember smoking one bad and i will miss them when I m done with my boxes. I had plenty of very plugged Reyes tho.

 

On the other hand, I've had so many plugged CoRo, Sig 2 & 6. For the premium paid now it's already unacceptable, I can't even with the new prices. 

[MrBirdman]

10 hours ago, Bijan said:

It's not the profile. Or not just the profile.

As I said Trinidad quality is as much about consistency and construction as much as flavour and profile.

I enjoy a sweet chocolate monte as much as a sweet donut Trinidad. The batting average of monte 4 and 5 is nowhere near that of Reyes and coloniales.

Monte especiales, double Edmundo, etc do compare more favourably though.

But if half of a box of monte 4 smokes really well I am happy. Whereas Trinidad is as consistent as CCs get.

Trinidad is like the opposite of an RyJ Churchill. I like that profile too but construction is often atrocious on those.

Apropos Montecristo specifically, I agree it tends to have more uneven quality than most marca’s, extending not just to the construction but the wrappers and flavor. If there’s anywhere to pay the premium for HQ/PSP, it’s Monte. 

I smoke more Trinidad than any marca besides Montecristo, at least I used to, so I’m a big fan. That said, I am not sure Trinidad is notably ahead of Cohiba in the same way it and others are ahead of Monte. I’ve had boxes of Reyes with beautiful wrappers that were 50% super-tight and 50% irreparably plugged. My first box of Esmerelda were mostly disappointments, with some serious construction issues.

At least half the Trini I smoke are Coloniales and over the past few years the plug rate has been fairly low but I still get at least one or two plugs per box that a PD can’t fully rectify. I will allow the plug rate outside Reyes is slightly lower than Cohiba IME, and there is a little less variation in blend integrity (though I suspect that’s a function of their flavor profiles as much as anything). But then again, I smoked through a 2019 MUP box two years ago that was absolutely terrible - most of the cigars had a strong, unpleasant earthiness and the issue was so common with that code there was a thread on it IIRC. In short, I don’t buy Trinidad with any more confidence than I do (did) Cohiba. I bought it because I really enjoy the profile.

The biggest challenge for HSA re Trinidad will be establishing it as a luxury brand on the same level as Cohiba. The price hike will probably help with that, but I think it’s still up for debate whether there’s enough room at the top for two when Cohiba is clearly the king.

[Paladin865]

In my observation I had said Trinidad to be a cousin of Cohiba. The price hike from Habanos SA seems to confirm my statement.

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

The biggest challenge for HSA re Trinidad will be establishing it as a luxury brand on the same level as Cohiba. The price hike will probably help with that, but I think it’s still up for debate whether there’s enough room at the top for two when Cohiba is clearly the king.

Agreed. 

Cohiba will thrive in the new environment. (except Siglo I/II/Medio/Panetela/Exquisitos). They will introduce others. 

Trinidad Reyes and Coloniales are done.  The others, we will see but if they were being traded on the DOW, I wouldn't be holding too much stock. 

 

[BigGuns]

5 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Agreed. 

Cohiba will thrive in the new environment. (except Siglo I/II/Medio/Panetela/Exquisitos). They will introduce others. 

Trinidad Reyes and Coloniales are done.  The others, we will see but if they were being traded on the DOW, I wouldn't be holding too much stock.

Reading that bums me out. Comment based on prediction due to pricing/commentary here and elsewhere from the market, or are you seeing/hearing something behind the scenes?