Counterfeit Boom

[Arctic Dude]

I posted this in the Suspect Cigar section, but thought it was worth a more general audience (please remove if redundant).  I'm wondering if the recent price hikes (particularly with Cohiba and Trinidad) will lead to an explosive increase in the number of counterfeits flooding the market?  Cohiba has always had more than their fair share of knock-offs, but will we see Trinidad become the next big marca to be exploited?  And, if so, will Habanos S.A. need to work on creating more counterfeit resistant bands (what with all the fancy holograms and UV codes)?  I look forward to seeing glass-top Trinidad boxes littering the beaches of Mexico and the Caribbean the way that Cohiba does now!  Then, Habanos will really know that they've successfully managed to elevate then to luxury status! 😆

[dangolf18]

8 minutes ago, Arctic Dude said:

I posted this in the Suspect Cigar section, but thought it was worth a more general audience (please remove if redundant).  I'm wondering if the recent price hikes (particularly with Cohiba and Trinidad) will lead to an explosive increase in the number of counterfeits flooding the market?  Cohiba has always had more than their fair share of knock-offs, but will we see Trinidad become the next big marca to be exploited?  And, if so, will Habanos S.A. need to work on creating more counterfeit resistant bands (what with all the fancy holograms and UV codes)?  I look forward to seeing glass-top Trinidad boxes littering the beaches of Mexico and the Caribbean the way that Cohiba does now!  Then, Habanos will really know that they've successfully managed to elevate then to luxury status! 😆

Except your average Joe Schmoe that's going to be buying those glass-top boxes isn't aware of price hikes and I don't think those that sling them on the beaches are going to be successful getting them to pay more. Biggest concern is highly realistic counterfeits that will likely find their way to market one way or another. 

[Arctic Dude]

12 minutes ago, dangolf18 said:

Except your average Joe Schmoe that's going to be buying those glass-top boxes isn't aware of price hikes and I don't think those that sling them on the beaches are going to be successful getting them to pay more. Biggest concern is highly realistic counterfeits that will likely find their way to market one way or another. 

I'm not suggesting that the prices on the beaches will increase.  I'm just wondering whether Trinidad will join Cohiba as a preferred marca to counterfeit?   

[tjkoala]

The people looking to save some money on a box of cubans while on vacation were probably already priced out because a box of CoRos in the Cancun LCDH were already like $800, and the other lines aren't cheap their either since they're paying the tourist premium. Those folks will probably continue to buy glass tops off dudes on the beach who has a cousin who "works in the factory" and offers them a deal. I think the next market will be the online market where people (admittedly like us) will look for deals and will get burned. Just trust confirmed sources such as FOH and you'll be good to go.

[JohnS]

1 hour ago, Arctic Dude said:

I posted this in the Suspect Cigar section, but thought it was worth a more general audience (please remove if redundant). I'm wondering if the recent price hikes (particularly with Cohiba and Trinidad) will lead to an explosive increase in the number of counterfeits flooding the market? 

It's an interesting topic worthy of discussion in the General 'Water Hole' Forum. If the topic initially had image/s of suspect cigars then yes, it would belong in the Suspect Cigar Forum.

My thoughts on this matter is yes, there will be more counterfeits and more so of Trinidad than probably in the past. I mean, as an example, counterfeit Rolex watches remain as popular as ever, don't they?

[Arctic Dude]

4 minutes ago, JohnS said:

It's an interesting topic worthy of discussion in the General 'Water Hole' Forum. If the topic initially had image/s of suspect cigars then yes, it would belong in the Suspect Cigar Forum.

My thoughts on this matter is yes, there will be more counterfeits and more so of Trinidad than probably in the past. I mean, as an example, counterfeit Rolex watches remain as popular as ever, don't they?

I just bought a fancy new printer to try my hand at band making!! 😜 Next up…fabricating plexiglass topped boxes. My retirement plans are coming together nicely!! 🤑

[Chas.Alpha]

Just remember not to spell Coheeba with 2 E’s! 😀

[Nevrknow]

So this glass top box of Trini's is fake?

Damn!

 

[Chas.Alpha]

2 minutes ago, Nevrknow said:

So this glass top box of Trini's is fake?

Damn!

 

But he said that his cousin worked at the factory... 🤔

[El Presidente]

There are so many fakes in the market now........ I am not sure they have the ability to increase production 

[dominattorney]

22 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

There are so many fakes in the market now........ I am not sure they have the ability to increase production 

I think the Trinidad band just screams out to be faked. Would be too easy. 

[El Presidente]

1 minute ago, dominattorney said:

I think the Trinidad band just screams out to be faked. Would be too easy. 

Cohiba is where the ROI is in terms of fakes 

You can find 10 targets to buy a $750 box of fake CORO.  Harder to find 1 target to buy a $750 box of fake Fundadores. 

I am not sure they want to work that hard. 

 

[SCgarman]

2 hours ago, JohnS said:

It's an interesting topic worthy of discussion in the General 'Water Hole' Forum. If the topic initially had image/s of suspect cigars then yes, it would belong in the Suspect Cigar Forum.

My thoughts on this matter is yes, there will be more counterfeits and more so of Trinidad than probably in the past. I mean, as an example, counterfeit Rolex watches remain as popular as ever, don't they?

Yes, and with the high crime rate exploding against Rolex watch owners, I have read some wear their genuine watch at home and wear a fake out in the wild. Doesn't really make sense, as some criminals will still kill you or severely hurt you to take that watch. They won't realize it's fake until after they leave you for dead. Sad but this is the world we live in at the current moment.

[Hammer Smokin']

wearing a $50K watch in public is like walking around with $50K cash in your hand waving it around. 

who would do that? 

One of our Leafs players got his car jacked under knife point two days ago. Mitch Marner. People figure it was due to his social media posting where he was showing off in his fancy car which showed what parking lot he was at (he was at a cinema) only 15 minutes before the apparent jacking. Basically people following his socials saw where he was, and jacked him. 

[SCgarman]

1 minute ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

wearing a $50K watch in public is like walking around with $50K cash in your hand waving it around. 

who would do that? 

One of our Leafs players got his car jacked under knife point two days ago. Mitch Marner. People figure it was due to his social media posting where he was showing off in his fancy car which showed what parking lot he was at (he was at a cinema) only 15 minutes before the apparent jacking. Basically people following his socials saw where he was, and jacked him. 

Plenty do, including myself. But I don't walk around defenseless neither. 

[Hammer Smokin']

4 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

Plenty do, including myself. But I don't walk around defenseless neither. 

Plenty do. 

 

[dominattorney]

55 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Cohiba is where the ROI is in terms of fakes 

You can find 10 targets to buy a $750 box of fake CORO.  Harder to find 1 target to buy a $750 box of fake Fundadores. 

I am not sure they want to work that hard. 

 

True. I was thinking more along the lines of 40 dollar 5 count boxes, which people on the beach would buy. I'd never guess it but I was in Papagayo in Costa Rica last Thanksgiving and multiple tourists fell for the 40 dollar 5 pack of Cohiba from the beach guy. 

Me? I just bought the 10 dollar bracelets the little girl he had with him made. They were awesome. 

[LordAnubis]

There have certainly been a hell of a lot of highly suspicious sites popping up in the last two years. I don't think the price rises will increase that in anyway. I think the people who purhcased these fakes before will continue to purchase, but i dont think the fake market is increasing. 

Depends on how you define fake though ofcourse. I think factory back door boxes will boom, im alreayd suspicious of sources im seeing that have stock of things that by all rights shouldnt have it. Either the best fakes ive ever seen (cant find any fault in them) or true back door job.

 

[KavalanWhisky]

I was surprised about the different fakes available and for cigars that i would deem more regular and so the profit margins are soo small what is the point but they still do as the mark up must be still big anyways.

The high end stuff have become very sophisticated and have tried to get the old real boxes and even some real bands to put on fake sticks, that's where you will really struggle to tell. Now they don't need to target behike when a cab of Siglo VI will go for so much.

 

[Ryan]

There will be a lot of re-boxed stuff popping up. That is, new cigars of highly questionable origin, in older boxes. Or just fake boxes.

Fakers in Europe, Spain etc., generally put in a little more effort in their fakes than on the beaches in Latin America/Caribbean. For example, I can't remember ever seeing a glass top box that originated in Europe. They may exist but I haven't seen them.

I mentioned this before after my trip to Havana in November. The black market has exploded in Cuba. Both of fakes and "side-door" from cigar industry buildings, factories etc.

It was always there, but this last trip, after the worst of Covid where even more people living in Cuba had no other means of income, it took off.

People who before had a decent income for Cuba, had no real interest in cigars, knew nothing about them, were getting cardboard boxes of unboxed but banded cigars to Canada, Russia, Eastern Europe, Spain etc.

Enormous amounts of them. It was in November and probably still is a popular means of income (though the Russian route will probably have slowed).

Many of these cigars will have been rolled in factories.

Bundles of 25 El Laguito Julieta No. 2 were offered to me in November for $75. When I said I wasn't interested, the price came down to free.

There is currently a very risky triple combination of desperate times in Cuba, the worst in 25 years at least, extreme lack of supply of the real thing everywhere and official prices of Cohiba and Trinidad doubling or tripling.

I have already made changes to harden up (even more than before) the listing algorithm on Bond Roberts.

 

 

[Huckleberry]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:29 PM, Hammer Smokin' said:

wearing a $50K watch in public is like walking around with $50K cash in your hand waving it around. 

who would do that? 

One of our Leafs players got his car jacked under knife point two days ago. Mitch Marner. People figure it was due to his social media posting where he was showing off in his fancy car which showed what parking lot he was at (he was at a cinema) only 15 minutes before the apparent jacking. Basically people following his socials saw where he was, and jacked him. 

This is how Pop Smoke met his end.  They rented a place up in Beverly Hills and were videoing their arrival with loads of cash, like bricks of benjamins.  Unfortunately their luggage had been tagged with the address of their rental for delivery, clearly seen in pictures and video.  The group of thugs saw the address the day it was posted, and Pop was smoked that night inside the house.  I am not making light of it, may he RIP.

I don't prescribe to social media, not for the bricks of benjamins, I just don't.  I also wear a drugstore timex these days.