Cohiba Robusto & Cohiba Maduro 5 Magicos Wrapper Exchange


El Presidente

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Interesting report rob.

If only the wrappers make the all taste , The wrapeprs' prices become about 200 USD in a Box. Wow!!

As far as I read your report, Binder and filler also make something at tastes. So, I don't need to get angry against the Habanos's business attiude. :-P

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Rob - thank you as always for the tasting notes and the experiments. I did have a question in regards to the blenders and the quanity of leaf. Are you saying that Habanos S.A. would distribute a cigar that they know is not top self just because they ran out of wrapper (either light or dark)?

If a blender knows that the darker wrapper with his blend is going to be the best possible match, do they stop making the cigars when they run out of the darker wrapper or do they just subsitute the next best thing to complete the batch?

I know this is a business and who would blame them, just curious if you have any background knowledge of this.

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» Yesterday I wondered at how simple a Master blenders life really is when I

» saw the the only difference between a Cohiba Siglo VI and Cohiba Maduro 5

» Genios was the wrapper. Today I pay homage. Matching the wrappers to the

» blend is an artform. Set a wrong foot and you have a cigar which is

» undisciplined regardless of how good the raw materials are.

Excellent review Rob and a very poignant statement you've made above. I've always heralded the master blender's work as art. Many of them guard the secrets of the blends within their memory banks!

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» Rob - thank you as always for the tasting notes and the experiments. I did

» have a question in regards to the blenders and the quanity of leaf. Are

» you saying that Habanos S.A. would distribute a cigar that they know is

» not top self just because they ran out of wrapper (either light or dark)?

»

»

» If a blender knows that the darker wrapper with his blend is going to be

» the best possible match, do they stop making the cigars when they run out

» of the darker wrapper or do they just subsitute the next best thing to

» complete the batch?

»

» I know this is a business and who would blame them, just curious if you

» have any background knowledge of this.

The truth is that they may run out of wrapper of filler originally chosen and complete the task by substituting other leaf to complete the run and meet the production target for that cigar. This is common. It also in part explains inconsistency. To this day meeting production targets still holds sway over blend consistency. It sucks I know.

Has anyone noticed some lighter Maduro 5 Secretos wrappers in recent times? Four months ago I was notified by a despondent HSA contact who was aghast that the decsion was taken to use the lighter Maduro 5 wrappers on the basis that they were still aged 5 years.

Maduro does not mean "dark" but "ripe" was the argument used. Our man in Havana argued until he was blue in the face that to use the lighter wrapper devalued the image of the product and was a breach of faith with the consumer. He lost. Meeting production numbers and demand won.

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» The truth is that they may run out of wrapper of filler originally chosen

» and complete the task by substituting other leaf to complete the run and

» meet the production target for that cigar. This is common. It also in part

» explains inconsistency. To this day meeting production targets still holds

» sway over blend consistency. It sucks I know.

»

» Has anyone noticed some lighter Maduro 5 Secretos wrappers in recent

» times? Four months ago I was notified by a despondent HSA contact who was

» aghast that the decsion was taken to use the lighter Maduro 5 wrappers on

» the basis that they were still aged 5 years.

» Maduro does not mean "dark" but "ripe" was the argument used. Our man in

» Havana argued until he was blue in the face that to use the lighter

» wrapper devalued the image of the product and was a breach of faith with

» the consumer. He lost. Meeting production numbers and demand won.

I thought that might be the case because after all, they are in it to make money. From now on your are in charge of determing which wrapper is best and sell those to us....the rest go to Ken (assuming you are not doing this already). :-D

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» Has anyone noticed some lighter Maduro 5 Secretos wrappers in recent times?

Yes, I noticed that while going through a mastercase of Genios and one of Magicos in Spain 2 weeks ago. The Genios (TEB AGO 07 IIRC) were mixed, ie. some dark, some colorado in colour. The Magicos (SOA AGO or SEP 07) were colorado at best.

» Four months ago I was notified by a despondent HSA contact who was

» aghast that the decsion was taken to use the lighter Maduro 5 wrappers on

» the basis that they were still aged 5 years.

» Maduro does not mean "dark" but "ripe" was the argument used. Our man in

» Havana argued until he was blue in the face that to use the lighter

» wrapper devalued the image of the product and was a breach of faith with

» the consumer. He lost. Meeting production numbers and demand won.

"Maduro" means both ripe and dark (for cigars), doesnt it? Nice one, HSA... :-P

FWIW, I agree with the guy. I dont understand how HSA can be so focused on production? Arent they supposed to maintain the image of culture and perfection of the habano, the best cigar in the world? Their way of running the business sounds like the way the "imperialists" run it. Shame on them for giving up perfection for something as low as money!

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  • 5 months later...

El Presidente,

Could you please provide us with a step by step on how to safely remove and re-add a wrapper? How did you loosen the gum on the head? How did you keep the wrapper from tearing or cracking when taking it off? Could you also tell us how to make or where to purchase some vegetable glue?

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» El Presidente,

»

» Could you please provide us with a step by step on how to safely remove

» and re-add a wrapper? How did you loosen the gum on the head? How did

» you keep the wrapper from tearing or cracking when taking it off? Could

» you also tell us how to make or where to purchase some vegetable glue?

Apologies fro missing this.

I simply clipped the cap and unbound the last layer of cap. Look for where the wraper leaf finishes....apply a litle heat from a hairdryer at that spot (few seconds only) and it will lift. Just unwrap slowly.

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» Since this thread has been revived, what's the current take on the Cohiba

» maduros? Has the change in wrapper (color) made a difference? Are they

» still worth the coin (if they ever were?).

The overall response to the release has been positive although the profile does upset some Cuban purists.

I find the Genios and Secretos to be excellent. The quesion is how will they age? What will they transform into?

Still a few years away before we can answer the question definitacely but there is enough evidence that they should age well.

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» » Since this thread has been revived, what's the current take on the

» Cohiba

» » maduros? Has the change in wrapper (color) made a difference? Are

» they

» » still worth the coin (if they ever were?).

»

» The overall response to the release has been positive although the profile

» does upset some Cuban purists.

»

» I find the Genios and Secretos to be excellent. The quesion is how will

» they age? What will they transform into?

»

» Still a few years away before we can answer the question definitacely but

» there is enough evidence that they should age well.

Bos,

Do you think aging them more is going to transform them into a better smoke; they are already 5 years old from the get go?

As I purchased all 3 and was not thrilled with them.

Dave

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» » » Since this thread has been revived, what's the current take on the

» » Cohiba

» » » maduros? Has the change in wrapper (color) made a difference? Are

» » they

» » » still worth the coin (if they ever were?).

» »

» » The overall response to the release has been positive although the

» profile

» » does upset some Cuban purists.

» »

» » I find the Genios and Secretos to be excellent. The quesion is how will

» » they age? What will they transform into?

» »

» » Still a few years away before we can answer the question definitacely

» but

» » there is enough evidence that they should age well.

»

» Bos,

»

» Do you think aging them more is going to transform them into a better

» smoke; they are already 5 years old from the get go?

»

» As I purchased all 3 and was not thrilled with them.

»

» Dave

Dave -

I believe it's the wrapper that's 5 years old, and not the cigars themselves. And they contain younger filler. As such, once everything was moistened in order to roll them, a fairly intensive fermentation would have ensued, which would make aging just as important to these as any other cigars...

My understanding, at least, of how this all works.

So age will help, unless the flavor profile of this line just isn't to your liking.

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  • 4 months later...

Cohiba Robusto & Cohiba Maduro 5 Magicos Wrapper Exchange Test

This is my last in the series of wrapper change tests. What we have done with the help of Yasmel our visiting Cuban roller is swap the wrappers on a Cohiba Robusto and Cohiba Maduro 5 Magicos.

We previously swapped wrappers on a Cohiba Siglo VI and a Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios and concluded that they were essentially the same binder and filler blends but that the wrappers made all the difference. Exchanging the Cohiba Siglo VI wrapper with the Cohiba Maduro 5 Geios wrapper effectively turned the Cohiba Siglo VI (taste wise) into a Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios and Vise Versa. The results to me were astounding as it confirmed that the essential blends were the same.

Would the same occur with Cohiba Robusto and Cohiba Maduro 5 Magicos? This is what this test set out to prove or disprove as well as the further evidence as to the influence of the wrappers themselves in the taste of a cigar.

We need to do a review of the inititial cigars in their original states. I have used the same date codes for this test.

Cohiba Maduro 5 Magicos MAY 07

This is one dusky maiden. Slick feel to the touch, slightly damp with a brooding elegance. Smell at cold is exotic sadlewood and cocoa. Construction is perfect with no soft spots whatsoever. You could stare at a cigar like this for a long time for sheer cerebral delight.

Clipped the cap and the draw was a delight. Soft powdered cocoa on the lips along with the finest of toasted tobacco.

Fired up the foot and we have a sensuous display cocoa, chocolate and cream . Delicate in this delivery, the cigar is light to medium bodied and concentratin on finesse. Complete absence of white pepper through the nose however a torrent of white smoke which has a unique aroma of sweet incence.

As the cigar progresses it shows no change in flavour delivery. All very nice mind you....cocoa, chocolate and cream which is the nirvana for many however I am looking for a hint of wild side...a tantrum...a twist...some deep stewed fruits or burst of bitter chocolate. Unfortunately none came to the very end.

Cohiba Robusto NOV 06

Gorgeous oily unfiltered honey coloured wrapper. Aroma at cold all tobacco and sweet spice. Clipped the cap to find a perfect draw and a combination of dry grass and honey/cream on the lips.

Fired up the foot and you are quickly takeninto a medium bodied world of bliss. Everything is in synch...medium body, viscous mouthfeel, Cohiba grassy notes, cream and coffee. When you experience a good one of these...is there any regular production cigar better? The burn is effortless, the experience devine. All is in balance from the lushness of the experience to the interplay of the flavours. More remarkable is that we are only into the first inch of the cigar. A quick purge through the nose reveals the slightest of pepper spices. The white smoke is dense and hanging, there is a honey sweetness entering the second third going hand to hand combat with the pure coffee notes. Pure toasted tobacco forms the spine.

The final third increases to medium full in body and yet the core flavours of honey, coffee, cream and toasted tobacco refuse to be intimidated by its youth. Exceptional.

Test 1

Cohiba Maduro 5 with Cohiba Robusto Wrapper

image4810.jpg

Torched the foot and left the smouldering embers to find their feet. The burn was fine and the initial draws found a cigar at war with itself. Charred barrel wood fought headlong with grassy notes. Each tried hard to get the upper hand. Remarkably the cigar through this interplay was relatively smooth yet unconvincing. Picture two parents staying together for the sake of the kids. On the surface all looked OK but you just know that something is not right. Well into the first inch and there is no sign of the Maduro 5 Magicos cocoa and chocolate. Neither is there a sign of the Cohiba Robusto cream and coffee. Simply charred wood and a pleasant grassiness in a medium bodied format. Into the second third and this is clearly a shotgun marriage of convenience. The filler does not match the wrapper and vice versa. Each battles with the other revealing a confised canvass of flavours.

The final third gives me pause to sit back and reflect. This is not a bad cigar and yet it is missing any defineable characteristics of either the Cohiba Maduro 5 Magicos or Cohiba Robusto. What we have ended up with is a bastard child at war with itself incapable of of expressing a core personality. We can rule out that the Cohiba Mduro 5 Magicos is simply a Cobiba Robusto blend with a Maduro wrapper.

image4811.jpg

image4812.jpg

image4813.jpg

Cohiba Robuso with a Maduro 5 Magicos wrapper

Bitter chocolate and bitter grass openings. Medium full bodied but full of confusion and angst. Hedonistic spice on the back palate but non through the nose. Aggravating, confusing, wild on the palate. Not sure whether to love it or hate it. Into the first inch and the dichotomy of flavours are giving me a headache. Full bodied, more mull bodied than either the Magicos or Cohiba Robusto tasted in their original state. Thhere is a war going on here and each side (binder/filler Vs Wrapper) is holding its own. I am getting grassy creamy notes but it is sooon blotted out out by Charred wood and cocoa. Neither appears capable of dancing together. In the end there is a bitterness which is overbearing. Hugely supprised by this outcome which continues into the final third. There is a sheer lack of balance to this cigar, great tobacco undenied but tobacco working in opposite directions.

Yesterday I wondered at how simple a Master blenders life really is when I saw the the only difference between a Cohiba Siglo VI and Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios was the wrapper. Today I pay homage. Matching the wrappers to the blend is an artform. Set a wrong foot and you have a cigar which is undisciplined regardless of how good the raw materials are.

image4814.jpg

image4815.jpg

image4816.jpg

Summary

I am coming to the conclusion that wrapper is dominant in the determination of the taste elements of a cigar. It takes a real master to determine whether a light or dark wrapper (and the variants within) fits best to the blend. In reality a blender may not have the final determination (due to quantity of wrapper available in any particular run) to fullfil a production but I feel like I am in the blending rooms of Partagas/Upmann/La Corrona/El Habanero/ when I am conducting these experiments.

In conclusion the Maduro 5 Magicos and the Cohiba Robusto fillers and binders are not the same blends. The wrappers are uniquely chosen to enhace and showcase those blends.

As the French say....!Viva la Difference!

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  • 1 month later...

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