Storage temp for habanos

[bogie90golfer]

I have heard that ideal aging temp is around 65degrees. I live in a condo in Florida. Keeping thermostat on 65 is too cool and expensive. Any suggestions or what is everyone else doing to control temp? Thanks

[Leftridge]

» I have heard that ideal aging temp is around 65degrees. I live in a condo

» in Florida. Keeping thermostat on 65 is too cool and expensive. Any

» suggestions or what is everyone else doing to control temp? Thanks

several threads on the subject..

here is one...

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/board_entr...id=71566#p71566

Good luck!

[Colt45]

» I have heard that ideal aging temp is around 65degrees. I live in a condo

» in Florida. Keeping thermostat on 65 is too cool and expensive. Any

» suggestions or what is everyone else doing to control temp? Thanks

We have a number of Florida members - many are using temp controlled cabinets or wine refrigerators.

There are a number of threads on the topic, and I'm sure some of our warm climate members will

chime in as well.

Here are a couple of links to makers of temp controlled cabinets:

http://www.aristocrathumidors.com/

http://www.avallohumidors.com/

[Taino]

To be honest I don't really care much about temp, dough our temperatures are much lower than in florida.

If you keep humidity around 65% I don't think temp should be an issue in your weather (similar to cuba)... but that's just me :-P

[bogie90golfer]

» To be honest I don't really care much about temp, dough our temperatures

» are much lower than in florida.

» If you keep humidity around 65% I don't think temp should be an issue in

» your weather (similar to cuba)... but that's just me :-P

Good Point, my average household temp runs at 75. I become curious when I hear for aging temp should be 65, That is 10degree differnece in what I have been storing at. What do the cubans do?

[Colt45]

» Good Point, my average household temp runs at 75. I become curious when I

» hear for aging temp should be 65, That is 10degree differnece in what I

» have been storing at. What do the cubans do?

I would not be concerned with the aging aspect, but with higher temps comes the risk of hatching beetles.

Even with freezing of cigars, if all the eggs have not been destroyed, there is a risk of outbreak.

[asc]

» I have heard that ideal aging temp is around 65degrees. I live in a condo

» in Florida. Keeping thermostat on 65 is too cool and expensive. Any

» suggestions or what is everyone else doing to control temp? Thanks

What is your setup like? Cooler, humidor?

http://www.tetech.com/assys/air.shtml is a great company, you can build your own TE cooling device.

Like colt said, beetle prevention is the main thing I'd be looking out for.

[bogie90golfer]

» » I have heard that ideal aging temp is around 65degrees. I live in a

» condo

» » in Florida. Keeping thermostat on 65 is too cool and expensive. Any

» » suggestions or what is everyone else doing to control temp? Thanks

»

» What is your setup like? Cooler, humidor?

»

» http://www.tetech.com/assys/air.shtml is a great company, you can build

» your own TE cooling device.

»

» Like colt said, beetle prevention is the main thing I'd be looking out

» for.

Thanks again all, Right now I have a coolerdor and a small humidor. I have a small wine cooler that holds 8 bottles--It has fan built in it--and I suppose I could use for my good stuff. I really don't want to take the chance of beetles. I use rh beads and have no problem with a constant 65 humidity.

[Leftridge]

I bought a thermoelectric wine fridge because concern my humi gets 75-80..Since I started using the fridge it never crosses my mind and I have never looked back...

» Thanks again all, Right now I have a coolerdor and a small humidor. I

» have a small wine cooler that holds 8 bottles--It has fan built in it--and

» I suppose I could use for my good stuff. I really don't want to take the

» chance of beetles. I use rh beads and have no problem with a constant 65

» humidity.

[Don Candido]

» » Good Point, my average household temp runs at 75. I become curious when

» I

» » hear for aging temp should be 65, That is 10degree differnece in what

» I

» » have been storing at. What do the cubans do?

»

» I would not be concerned with the aging aspect, but with higher temps

» comes the risk of hatching beetles.

» Even with freezing of cigars, if all the eggs have not been destroyed,

» there is a risk of outbreak.

I want to chime in with Colt. He is right and that is the real highest priority to properly aging smokes long term...

I do believe aging at 65F is the right temp, but over 69-70F is a whole 'nother problem, no one wants to deal with - Beetles. Stay away, if possible.

[Claudius]

» I really don't want to take the chance of beetles.

In that case, I would suggest you freeze ALL your cigars.

[asc]

» In that case, I would suggest you freeze ALL your cigars.

It's my understanding that freezing doesn't guarantee you will be free of beetles.

Rather, you have to keep the normal temperature below the level the eggs will hatch at (65º F ? ).

While freezing will kill some of the eggs, it is no guarantee that it will get them all, where as cool environment is a guarantee they won't hatch period.

[SmokinAl]

» While freezing will kill some of the eggs, it is no guarantee that it will

» get them all, where as cool environment is a guarantee they won't hatch

» period.

Isn't it the case that freezing "properly" will kill all the eggs and in the instances when freezing was done and there's still hatchings that the process was at fault by not being cold enough? At least that was my understanding.

[Claudius]

» » In that case, I would suggest you freeze ALL your cigars.

»

» It's my understanding that freezing doesn't guarantee you will be free of beetles.

Let's put it this way: the unprofessional freezing done by Habanos SA in Cuba does not guarantee that your cigars will be beetle free.

» Rather, you have to keep the normal temperature below the level the eggs will hatch at (65º F ? ).

You're right, under about 65°F, beetles wont show up in your cigars. However, the larvae can still eat your cigars if they have never been exposed to sufficiently low temperature.

» While freezing will kill some of the eggs, it is no guarantee that it will

» get them all, where as cool environment is a guarantee they won't hatch period.

Err, no, that's incorrect. According to studies I have linked here previously, exposure to temperatures below freezing point will kill the lasioderma larvae within days; exposure to significantly lower than freezing point temp (I would have to search for the exact temp, but basically a home freezer is good enough) within hours.

Never say never, but the way people usually freeze, for several days at very low temp (for home appliances anyway) basically guarantees a zero lasiaderma survival rate as it significantly exceeds both the required temp and duration.

That's the theory, anyway. Personally, I store at 59°F (15°C) at 65% RH, but most importantly, I store the cigars in closed ziploc bags (after a 30 day acclimatation period). That is a guarantee that should there ever be a larva or beetle eating some of my cigars, it will stay in the box it's in and not be able to eat other cigars.

[asc]

Excellent.

Thanks for clarifying claudius. Good to learn new things.

[havanaclub7]

I have a question about freezing cigars. It would seem like freezing would damage cigars, when you consider the natural oils, the need for humidity, etc. Am I wrong? I've never had a problem with beetles before and I've never frozen my cigars either. I'm probably just very lucky. But I'm nervous about sticking my fragile beautiful cigars in the deep freeze.

[asc]

HC7...

I believe that when you freeze them:

you should double-->triple freezer bag them...

only leave them in the freezer for 24-48 hours...

After the freezer, put them in the fridge for the same time frame they were in the freezer (24-48 hours)...

And ONLY then re-introduce them to the cooler. That's what I've heard in the past, and I've done with non-cuban purchases when I first started this hobby. Not sure how valid it is...so I wouldn't take action with it until you hear from another member or two.

(I also used a chest-freezer, not the one on top of the fridge because of it's lower temperature setting...)

[fugwumpy]

I’ve been looking for information on this subject for about 3 years and this is probably the best I’ve happened upon:

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/aez/41/1/87/_pdf

It’s a study to find out what temperatures/times are required eliminate the need for fumigating tobacco for beetle control.

[zuma]

Awesome info...

For the worst case scenario (of acclimatised larva) and to achieve 100% elimination of beetles in any stage of development, the storage temperatures and times are:

Storage

Temperature (C/F) -> Hours

-20C/- 4F -> 1 hrs

-15C/+ 5F -> 6

-10C/+14F -> 24

- 5C/+23F -> 504

+0C/+32F -> 1,176

+5C/+41F -> 1,680

Some additional time to ensure that the temperature has dropped to such levels in the center of the cigars would be required.

thanx fugwumpy for sharing that article!

[asc]

-10C/+14F -> 24

- 5C/+23F -> 504

Wow.

That's amazing right there.

Make sure folks that you have your freezer closer to 14º F eh?

504 hours...24 in a day...21 days in the freeze. Oye.

[Filliphy]

I work in a science laboratory, and have access to both liquid nitrogen, and - 80C freezers. I just thought then, that maybe 1 day in the -80C freezer would most certainly kill more eggs than a pissy -20C freezer!

» -10C/+14F -> 24

» - 5C/+23F -> 504

»

» Wow.

» That's amazing right there.

» Make sure folks that you have your freezer closer to 14º F eh?

»

» 504 hours...24 in a day...21 days in the freeze. Oye.

[fugwumpy]

No problem! :-D

[El Presidente]

Great info Fug ....moved it to the classics

[asc]

» 1 day in the -80C freezer would most certainly kill more eggs than a pissy -20C »freezer!

I wonder if one can get their cigars cold too quickly? If the temperature is that cold, and drops that much faster...would it physically affect the cigar itself?

[zuma]

» » 1 day in the -80C freezer would most certainly kill more eggs than a

» pissy -20C »freezer!

»

»

» I wonder if one can get their cigars cold too quickly? If the temperature

» is that cold, and drops that much faster...would it physically affect the

» cigar itself?

A lot of my work is done with cryogenics... and I would not recommend "snap freezing" your precious in dry ice (-78C/-109.3F), liquid nitrogen (-196C/-322.6F) or liquid helium (-277C/-466.6F). Thermal shock, through the rapid formation of water crystals within the tissues forming the tobacco leaves, would turn them into mush and crack their wrappers through sudden thermal contraction... and if they are taken out into a normal temp and ambient would cause further damage through both thermal expansion and near instant condensation.

The above advise of double/triple bagging them in a dry atmosphere (only for the drying process, not for storage) will ensure that they do not deteriorate during cool down or warm up. Oh, and don't try to freeze vacuum bagged boxes, 'cause you'll reduce convection and extend significantly the time needed to get the core of the cigars to the required temperature (remember that if the eggs are not held at the stipulated temperature for the specified time the eggs and larva will survive).... Putting the boxes in dry nitrogen filled hermetic containers during freezing, and subsequent warm up to 18C, would be ideal...

I have thought of putting them in a gamma-ray irradiator and nuking them with a dose of 100 Krad (<10 min in our system) :-P... but I reckon my colleagues would not approve of cigars in it... it would be nice and quick though! :cool: